ARE WE RIGHTEOUS?

[Will M]

Hello Butero,

 

God bless you.

You make the mistake many do in thinking it is not for the brethren, the truth could not be in us if we were not saved already.

Just something to think about.

You said"

We do sometimes sin without meaning to.  I also believe those sins are under the blood covering, and if it were not so, hardly anyone would be saved."

So that is where I got that.

You may believe what you will, I have no interest in changing your mind, I guess you won't really know until you stand before Jesus.

Enjoy your day

-Will

[wingnut-]

To Wingnut, no unclean thing can enter heaven.  Yes, we will be given white robes, but that doesn't mean we enter heaven unclean and are instantly made clean.  We were made clean when we were born again, or we couldn't enter into the holy of holies and into the presence of God.  We would still be separated from him. 

 

They are not unclean, they are said to be "under the altar", a reference to being covered under the grace of Jesus.  The point is, they do not receive their white robes until after the 5th seal is opened.  Believers sins are removed as far as the east is from the west, but not by ourselves, by the blood of Jesus.

[Joshua-777]

Why is it that because Jesus died for our sins, forgave those who repented, and created in us a new creation, that this has to mean we became perfect?  I have never understood this theology when scripture tells us that our flesh and the Spirit are in constant battle. Galatians 5 opens as Paul discusses the false teaching those in Galatia heard, causing some to question if they needed to be circumcised, living according to the law and not the Spirit. Paul then goes on talking about how we should walk in Love, which is the greatest of all. Paul ends speaking about walking in the Spirit, living for Him, which is in contradiction to living in the flesh. We read:

Hi Alan, with this theology, it is a difference in understanding of what the flesh is. I believe that the flesh isn't an internal nature, like a broken compass that always points the wrong direction. I believe it is the carnal mind. Before we come to the Lord, we have a mindset that is bent on sin and selfishness. We have a lifetime of thinking like the devil, we've accumulated habbits, memory muscles, and mindsets of an old man who is dead and gone.

When we come to the Lord, we are a new man, created in true righteousness and holiness, therefore we need to put off the old man.

Ephesians 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Before we came to the Lord, we have been cultivated by the enemy with a carnal mind.

Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

But now we have the Spirit, we no longer have to live according to the flesh.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

SO the unrenewed (Carnal) mind is the flesh that needs to be renewed.

Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Our mind needs renewed to the reality of who we are in Him and who He is in us.

This was also the meaning of repentance when Jesus announced "Repent, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand"

The word repent in strongs is

μετανοέω

metanoeō

met-an-o-eh'-o

From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

Total KJV occurrences: 34

To repent means to change your way of thinking, when the way you think changes, so will your actions. With being born again, to repent means to turn from the old man and change your way of thinking to the reality  your a new creation in Christ. The Kingdom is righteousness, peace, and joy (Romans 14:17), is also not a matter of talk, but of power (1 Cor 4:20). We are a new creation and citizens right now of the Kingdom of heaven, we need our minds renewed to the reality of that.

The word repent in english I believe has caused much damage to the understanding of true repentance.

From WikI - Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs. It generally [citation needed] involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible and humane life.

Online Dictionary - the action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse.

Biblical Repentance means changing the way you think, embracing the new man and putting off the old, and turning away from sin rather than just feeling bad for it. Many view repentance as beating yourself up for the old man and sorrow and remorse for the past, and then say excuse sin because they believe it's just their nature.

 

[Joshua-777]

To Wingnut, no unclean thing can enter heaven.  Yes, we will be given white robes, but that doesn't mean we enter heaven unclean and are instantly made clean.  We were made clean when we were born again, or we couldn't enter into the holy of holies and into the presence of God.  We would still be separated from him. 

Amen

[wingnut-]

 

To Wingnut, no unclean thing can enter heaven.  Yes, we will be given white robes, but that doesn't mean we enter heaven unclean and are instantly made clean.  We were made clean when we were born again, or we couldn't enter into the holy of holies and into the presence of God.  We would still be separated from him. 

Amen

 

 

 

I guess that means you think Satan is clean?  Read Job, and you will see that the enemy still to this day has access to heaven and the throne itself.  I think you are confusing what is, with what is to come.

[xyluz]

I appreciate all your comments so far, but can we stop sounding like the scripture contradicts itself?

 

The scripture is true, and cannot - does not contradict itself... we are the ones limited in our understanding. I expect us to prayerfully consider people's view on this topic and learn from each other. 

 

 

Thank you.

[Will M]

Yes Xy the scripture is true and blessed. Amen.

But people process differently. We should be able to agree on all of it after all it is the word of the living God and not just a book.

Thanks for the reminder.

 

God bless you as you continue to seek Him

-Will

[Guest shiloh357]

Joshua,

 

You are failing to distinguish between legal righteousness (justification by faith) and imparted righteousness.  You quoted a lot of verses to me about righteousness, but you fail to make the distinction.   When righteousness is mentioned in terms of what we become,  it is imparted righteousness which receive in the future when our bodies are renewed.

 

The righteousness we have NOW is legal or forensic righteousness.   That's because you still have an unregenerated sin nature (mind will emotions).   You are placed in legal right standing with God, but that is on the basis of faith and is credited to you.  It's what we call, "positional justification."  You are declared righteous, but that is not something that is manifest in your flesh at this point.

 

Yes we are new creations and we have new, and recreated inner man, our hearts are reborn, but that doesn't negate the reality that only one stage of salvation has been accomplished at this point.  We still have sin nature that wars against the Spirit and that is borne for us all over the New Testament.   You need a better understanding of the of legal aspects of salvation that are in play at this point.

[xyluz]

   You need a better understanding of the of legal aspects of salvation that are in play at this point.

 

 

 

 

To Wingnut, no unclean thing can enter heaven.  Yes, we will be given white robes, but that doesn't mean we enter heaven unclean and are instantly made clean.  We were made clean when we were born again, or we couldn't enter into the holy of holies and into the presence of God.  We would still be separated from him. 

Amen

 

 

 

I guess that means you think Satan is clean?  Read Job, and you will see that the enemy still to this day has access to heaven and the throne itself.  I think you are confusing what is, with what is to come.

 

 

wait, wingnut.. are you saying Heaven accepts unclean things/persons?

[Will M]

Joshua,

 

You are failing to distinguish between legal righteousness (justification by faith) and imparted righteousness.  You quoted a lot of verses to me about righteousness, but you fail to make the distinction.   When righteousness is mentioned in terms of what we become,  it is imparted righteousness which receive in the future when our bodies are renewed.

 

The righteousness we have NOW is legal or forensic righteousness.   That's because you still have an unregenerated sin nature (mind will emotions).   You are placed in legal right standing with God, but that is on the basis of faith and is credited to you.  It's what we call, "positional justification."  You are declared righteous, but that is not something that is manifest in your flesh at this point.

 

Yes we are new creations and we have new, and recreated inner man, our hearts are reborn, but that doesn't negate the reality that only one stage of salvation has been accomplished at this point.  We still have sin nature that wars against the Spirit and that is borne for us all over the New Testament.   You need a better understanding of the of legal aspects of salvation that are in play at this point.

This is a beautiful response. Well said.

-Will