ny pastor raffles off rifle during church

[LookingForAnswers]

 

There is no constitutional guaranty of tax exempt status, paying taxes does not in any way hinder practice of religion. I am not sure of the reasoning behind churches being given tax exempt status but it is not something that should be taken for granted.

If churches have to pay taxes, this means that the government will be taking the money that people "gave to God."

 

People give money to churches, God does not need it.

OK . . . what is your belief about tithing,  then? (What is a tithe? Should it be done? etc.)

A tithe is a 10% and it is not a required element for Christians.  Giving is, but not tithing.  We are instructed to give with a happy heart and we should do so, each according to his own means and heart.  We do not give to the Church because God needs the money, we are not giving the money to God, we are giving it to a group of believers we have chosen to fellowship with.  Do you believe that God needs the money?

 

God never needed "the money"; however, the priests and Levites needed to be fed and clothed.

 

Giving of the tenth is more about the condition of your heart and glorifying God than it is about filling God's belly, so to speak.

 

But even so, when a person gives a tithe or an offering, it is given to the Lord and the work of His ministry. Are you fine with a portion of the money you gave to the church to give to the food bank to be given instead to the government?

 

 

If my church were to leave the realm of religion and enter the secular realm i would be fine with it.

 

but with money going to things like this...

It is hard for me to think all the money is going to "Gods work".

[The_Patriot21]

I'm of two minds on this.  First, raffling anything off in a church seems a bit strange to me.  If the church needs money to fund its various ministries, then the leadership should simply ask the congregation to give more.  That's what we do.  We don't have car washes, bake sales, etc., etc., etc.  When we need money beyond our budget, we approach the people and they give.  That's pretty simple. 

 

But I do find it equally strange that anybody would get all uptight about the church - Christians in general - having anything to do with a *gasp* gun!  People, guns are legal!   Guns are what they are; they are objects.  They are not inhabited by evil spirits and they don't do any harm to anybody.  They go up in value, and if I may say, they make an awesome fashion accessory here in the Appalachia's.  Honestly the liberal Chistians that flit around this website are, well, humorous.  However, their attitude does point to a more serious problem; the problem of first principles.  The debate shouldn't be about guns and BIbles co-mingling, it should be about first principles in a free society.  But that's a topic for another day.

 

thats exactly my point, whats important isnt whats being raffled, its whether the church should have the right to do it, and why. Now there are those that think that a church shouldn't do raffles, in reply to a previous argument, theres a big difference between a raffle and an indulgence-and from my understanding, the point of the raffle wasnt necessarily to get money but to make a political statement-hence why they chose to raffle a gun.

[LookingForAnswers]

how about the church make a spiritual statement instead.  Seems to be more in line with what Jesus would expect.  Jesus didn't commission the church to make political statements, He did so to win over the lost.   You cannot serve two masters, either a church is political or it is spiritual.

[Fez]

Prayer would have been good..

[Guest P_W]

Amen, Marnie!  Good thoughts!

 

It seems to me that some are a little confused about thithes and offerings.  This is cleared up easily by reading what God has to say on such things.  I will post the Scripture below.  

 

As for "serving two masters", being a political activist, or having a presence in government to make sure laws remain what God has designed, has nothing to do with the Scripture you have used in this way.  God has plenty of people in government.  God has His people everywhere in society.  

 

Should Christians withdraw from these issues then we have surrendered our world to the evil one.  We see what has happened in our society because Christians remained silent and did not fight for what was right.  We stood by, not wanting to get involved, and prayer was removed from public school.  We watched abortion on demand take over this land, yet remained silent thinking Christians have no place in government.  Now a new generation stands up to say, "No more!"  Christians are now becoming involved in all aspects of society and taking this land back for our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

The devil would have us believe we should not enter into this realm of service, because that would just make it easier for him to take over and pervert what God has created and His designed law.  It is time we realize that it is our duty to see that our nation remains, "One Nation Under God",  because if we shirk off these responsibilities we will surely be lost.

 

If you are confused on these issues just read more of the Bible and see how God worked in and through men to establish His kingdom and His chosen land.  God raised up kings and men who would rule according to His will and He also brought down those who went against Him and were evil.  God is very interested in government, society, and everything that affects His chosen.

 

Always in His care,

PrairWarur

 

 

Malachi 3:8-12

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

You Have Robbed God

8 “Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings. 

9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 

10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows. 

11 Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes,” says the Lord of hosts. 

12 “All the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land,” says the Lord of hosts.

[The_Patriot21]

how about the church make a spiritual statement instead.  Seems to be more in line with what Jesus would expect.  Jesus didn't commission the church to make political statements, He did so to win over the lost.   You cannot serve two masters, either a church is political or it is spiritual.

There you go again with the misconception that a church can't be involved in politics and spread Christ's love. When in reality a church should be willing to do both there is no reason why you can't spread Gods love through politics-in fact churches being politically active can do a great many things, in fact if more churches were politically active our government wouldnt be nearly as corrupt, perhaps we even have outlawed abortion and we wouldn't be teaching kids that their a bunch of animals that evolved by chance from a random explosion x amount of years ago.

[LookingForAnswers]

 

how about the church make a spiritual statement instead.  Seems to be more in line with what Jesus would expect.  Jesus didn't commission the church to make political statements, He did so to win over the lost.   You cannot serve two masters, either a church is political or it is spiritual.

There you go again with the misconception that a church can't be involved in politics and spread Christ's love. When in reality a church should be willing to do both there is no reason why you can't spread Gods love through politics-in fact churches being politically active can do a great many things, in fact if more churches were politically active our government wouldnt be nearly as corrupt, perhaps we even have outlawed abortion and we wouldn't be teaching kids that their a bunch of animals that evolved by chance from a random explosion x amount of years ago.

 

 

Any time spent being politically active is time spent not trying to save souls.  Being politically active might change laws but it does not change people.  If the church worried more about saving souls and less about changing laws the latter would take care of itself.

[The_Patriot21]

Changing laws can and does change people. Furthermore it gets the churches name out there. You don't reach souls by sitting quietly and minding your own business you reach souls by getting out there. By feeding the needy. By preaching to the lost. And yes, by changing laws for the benefit of Christ.

[LookingForAnswers]

Changing laws can and does change people. Furthermore it gets the churches name out there. You don't reach souls by sitting quietly and minding your own business you reach souls by getting out there. By feeding the needy. By preaching to the lost. And yes, by changing laws for the benefit of Christ.

 

Changing laws change actions, not hearts.  God changes hearts.  Not too many examples of anyone in the New Testament out there trying to change laws, in fact there are none.

[Fez]

Changing laws can and does change people. Furthermore it gets the churches name out there. You don't reach souls by sitting quietly and minding your own business you reach souls by getting out there. By feeding the needy. By preaching to the lost. And yes, by changing laws for the benefit of Christ.

 

Changing laws change actions, not hearts.  God changes hearts.  Not too many examples of anyone in the New Testament out there trying to change laws, in fact there are none.

I am in complete agreement. The separation of church and state from the pulpit is important. Where does it go? Down the Westboro Baptist route?