To cover or not to cover ?

[EnochBethany]

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 Thessalonians 5:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

There are several views  on the text, 

 

(1) This text has no applicability to us today. Paul is speaking about a ‘tradition’ that he has handed on. Hence, since this is not the tradition of the modern church, we hardly need to consider this text.

 

(2) The head covering is the hair. Hence, the applicability today is that women should wear (relatively) long hair.

 

(3) The head covering is a real head covering and the text is applicable today, in the same way as it was in Paul’s day. 

 

But which is it really there is only one answer and how do we know which one ?

 

 

I would say whatever the Holy Spirit convicts one of....  that's the way we should go....

 

Alot of people say the Holy Spirit convict them to this and that but there is only one Holy Spirit that leads into the truth alone 

 

does the spirit lead everyone to the same place?

 

How to know?  Read the passage, diagram sentences, parse words, use Greek lexicons; study to show yourself approved, consult men with the gift of teaching, compare scripture with scripture, pray & trust the Lord for wisdom, abide in Christ, get some persons to pray the prayer in Eph 3:14-19 for you, consider how it fits into "loving God" and "loving neighbor" (not necessarily in that order).  Then at least you won't do anything foolish based on the text.

 

Peter said that some of Paul's writings were hard to understand -- however, IMHO this one is clear as a bell.  No doubt someone will say I have bats in the belfry.

[EnochBethany]

Choices:

Cover,

Not Cover.

 

What is "other"?

Powder the nose?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Everyone....

         God Bless us all,Praise & Glory be to God in the Highest!!!! As Brother Butero has said & I agree 100% this is one of those things where you can either do it or not & it is not a sin that leads to death.......for me,I wear my hair as my covering & I am revering God & letting every angel know that I am in submission to my Lord,my God ,,,,,,,to do otherwise would be irreverant(for me)  I don't quite understand why this would be an issue for anyone,I would think that one just wants to do things their way? We are accountable for our own Salvation,I am not saying it is a Salvation issue by any stretch of the imagination ,,,what I am saying is that for me this is important & therefore I am held accountable,,,,,,,,one that does not see this as I do would not be held accountable (see what I mean?)

          If in a womans heart she reveres God by wearing a shawl over her head for a covering then that is her accountability & not mine...........I don't know if I am explaining myself well but I would just not want to see anyone be weighed down by sin condemnation over such a thing as this,let each man search his own heart & seek Gods approval in what he does......

                                                                                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Diatheosis]

nowadays I am sure it's not the hair God is most concerned when it comes to covering. I sort of wonder why the hair grows at all if it were supposed to be short? Is it a trick to push the men to correct the Eden mistake? Like, if the hair were meant to be short, and we just must figure it out.

 

So considering the flow of Creation, the hair grows=it is meant to be that way (long? but how long?)

 

Do bald women go to hell or don't they just get the spirit of prophecy on them?

 

I know my God is the Righteous God, but I don't know if those are the qualifications, especially since prophecy is not self-caused. What about women suffering from cancer and the kemo (if the prayers just have not helped so far)? Are they absolutely on the black list as for the prophecy? Just one instance. It is not that I would be making fun of the scripture, but practically its strict application would lead into situations like this. Or then I am just missing something essential. Wouldn't be the first time, though. 

[other one]

let us not forget that we are speaking of how women should be when they are praying....

 

 

if there hair is long cover it up  if it's not long then don't.

 

seems simple to me....

[nebula]

You say, "I don't believe that grace allows us to live anyway we want. "

 

IMHO, when grace is fully & properly active in our lives, generally we live any way we want, because what we want is to love God & neighbor & we want to do exactly what the Lord wants, for we are filled unto all the fullness of God & filled with His Spirit abiding in Christ.  Still on some level we may have a Garden of Gethsemane experience when it is "Not what I will, but what You will, Lord."

 

Awesome words, brother!

[EnochBethany]

 

You say, "I don't believe that grace allows us to live anyway we want. "

 

IMHO, when grace is fully & properly active in our lives, generally we live any way we want, because what we want is to love God & neighbor & we want to do exactly what the Lord wants, for we are filled unto all the fullness of God & filled with His Spirit abiding in Christ.  Still on some level we may have a Garden of Gethsemane experience when it is "Not what I will, but what You will, Lord."

 

Awesome words, brother!

 

Thanks for your encouragement, sister.

[Guest Butero]

nowadays I am sure it's not the hair God is most concerned when it comes to covering. I sort of wonder why the hair grows at all if it were supposed to be short? Is it a trick to push the men to correct the Eden mistake? Like, if the hair were meant to be short, and we just must figure it out.

 

So considering the flow of Creation, the hair grows=it is meant to be that way (long? but how long?)

 

Do bald women go to hell or don't they just get the spirit of prophecy on them?

 

I know my God is the Righteous God, but I don't know if those are the qualifications, especially since prophecy is not self-caused. What about women suffering from cancer and the kemo (if the prayers just have not helped so far)? Are they absolutely on the black list as for the prophecy? Just one instance. It is not that I would be making fun of the scripture, but practically its strict application would lead into situations like this. Or then I am just missing something essential. Wouldn't be the first time, though. 

Everything you have mentioned has been addressed repeatedly in this thread.  This is not a sin issue, but it says what it says.  We are supposed to pray always, so it is kind of impractical to decide to have one's head uncovered all day and on the spur of the moment when we need to talk to God, suddenly cover it. 

 

There is nobody in here that claims anyone goes to hell over hair length.  As for getting the "spirit of prophecy on them," only God can answer that.  Again, I didn't write the Bible.  I just believe it.  When it says something, I don't try to figure out why it won't work for this person of that person.  I try to follow it.  In this one instance, people are given the freedom to be contentious and ignore it, but I do believe it will effect their spiritual life. 

[enoob57]

Butero,

 

First, I don't seem to be able to use the quote button, so sorry.

 

You can't have it both ways. Either they have to follow it or they don't. If they don't follow it and submit this way then they are in rebellion. Submit and follow to the letter or you are in rebellion. That leads to of course how long is long hair. We would have to have this done to the millimeter otherwise we are disobeying and in rebellion. The bible is clear no person in rebellion can go to heaven. If someone in rebellion can go to heaven I would love for you to show me. Ignorance of the word is not an excuse the bible is clear about that as well ( OT ). You either submit or are in rebellion. The word is clear it is one or the other, but never both...... Hey.....wait a second.....I just had a thought.....

 

You know this starting to sound more and more like following the law instead of grace. Maybe, just maybe this is just about submission to God from the heart. The holy Spirit leads us all into the truth, and only Jesus is truth. But He doesn't hit us all with everything at once, but rather one step at a time leads us gently to a closer walk with him, becoming more and more like him everyday. Where as one may be further down that road than another, well....who is to say, for it is God that sees the heart. The heart where submission must begin. So, I am sorry but I must go back to my first post, Following the word starts in the heart. The Lord through the Holy Spirit guides each and everyone of us. Where the phrases were more concerned about following the list of do's and don'ts, Jesus made clear it starts with the heart. To follow a list blindly serves no purpose if it isn't in the heart. It is a about submission in the heart first. May each follow as the Holy Spirit guides us to him.

 

Firestormx

I don't believe like you do about grace.  I can already see that.  I don't believe that grace allows us to live anyway we want.  I believe we must have grace to make it to heaven because nobody can live 100 percent up to God's standard of holiness, but I also believe that true faith will lead to good works, and that grace without works is dead, as is taught in the book of James.  I believe Jesus when he said he didn't come to do away with the law, but to fulfill the law. 

 

In the case of hair as a covering, it is unique in that the Bible states that you can disobey this teaching and not be in sin.  Perhaps another way of saying this is to mention how there are sins unto death and sins that are not unto death.  That is also taught in the New Testament.  I believe we should strive to follow all Biblical teachings, including this one, but I don't believe you will wind up in hell for being contentious, in this one matter.  Now I find myself referencing verse 16. 

 

Is there anything that may happen because a person is contentious and refused to obey this scripture?  I don't believe it will cause the person to go to hell, but what exactly does it mean when it mentions the angels?  When a man or woman doesn't have the sign of authority on their head, does it put them in any kind of spiritual danger?  I am not sure, because people don't know for sure what that reference means.  I have my own thoughts on it, but even I am not 100 percent sure.

You say, "I don't believe that grace allows us to live anyway we want. "

 

IMHO, when grace is fully & properly active in our lives, generally we live any way we want, because what we want is to love God & neighbor & we want to do exactly what the Lord wants, for we are filled unto all the fullness of God & filled with His Spirit abiding in Christ.  Still on some level we may have a Garden of Gethsemane experience when it is "Not what I will, but what You will, Lord."

There are two lines of thought that must be brought into this:

1. This, rather scary one, if self reliance is major in ones life- satan is able to fool the very elect if God allowed!Matt 24:24

As we all are able to read the instruction set and do as the letter dictates for the sake of the letter... as if to hold God by our obedience Jam 2:10

but what of the s?(S?)pirit of that letter?

2. Throwing us to the need of determining the s(S)pirit of the letter. 1Jn 4:1-6

As we are in an infinite reality and God's Word is understood and taught by Spirit of Christ in The Holy Spirit unto an infinite end...

These great realities keeps us from self sufficiency and cast us upon His Word broken and contrite

knowing it will never be the first birth strength but that of the second kept by God for His Good Pleasure!

Every single post is wrestling within the boundaries of Rom 7:7- 8all ... this treatise

alone close to the end of Paul's Life defines every answer to this topic of long, short, kneel, stand etc...

Love, Steven

[EnochBethany]

"Every single post is wrestling within the boundaries of Rom 7:7- 8all ... this treatise
alone close to the end of Paul's Life defines every answer to this topic of long, short, kneel, stand etc..."

 

Wrestling in the boundaries?  Like a cage?

 

"close to the end of Paul's Life"

 

I guess 10 years would be close.

But after Romans comes the jail in Caesaria, the house arrest in Rome, probable release & unrecorded missionary journeys (1 Tim, Titus), followed by arrest again & prison in Rome, from where we have Paul's swan song, 2 Timothy.