Among Christians, White Mainline Protestants Least Believe Abortion

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Among Christians, White Mainline Protestants Least Likely to Believe Abortion Is Morally Wrong

By Napp Nazworth, Christian Post Reporter

August 16, 2013|5:50 pm

 

About half of Americans believe abortion is morally wrong, according to a new study from Pew Research Center. Among the major combined race and religious demographic groups, white mainline Protestants were the least likely, and white evangelical Protestants were the most likely, to say that abortion is morally wrong.

 

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[nChrist]

Interesting - I find it hard to understand how anyone justifies abortion as being morally right. I guess that I'll have to stay stumped on this one because the typical excuses don't work with me. I'll just say that abortion is usually a convenience to avoid responsibility - committing murder in the process. In the meantime, there are still people waiting in line to adopt children.

[alphaparticle]

At the risk of provoking wrath and losing whatever popularity points I may or may not have, I will say that since I have converted over a year ago I have not understood the total opposition to abortion. When I came into the faith I did not see the vast majority of abortions (i.e. the earlier ones) as killing anyone at all, let alone murder. To be honest, I have yet to be persuaded it's murder (and therefore wrong). I am putting that out there not so much that I think anyone is obligated to convince me, but at least to express my honest consternation about this in the hopes maybe it will aid understanding the other side here.

[Guest Butero]

At the risk of provoking wrath and losing whatever popularity points I may or may not have, I will say that since I have converted over a year ago I have not understood the total opposition to abortion. When I came into the faith I did not see the vast majority of abortions (i.e. the earlier ones) as killing anyone at all, let alone murder. To be honest, I have yet to be persuaded it's murder (and therefore wrong). I am putting that out there not so much that I think anyone is obligated to convince me, but at least to express my honest consternation about this in the hopes maybe it will aid understanding the other side here.

I think all of us are aware that one of the 10 Commandments is "Thou Shalt Not Kill."  We know this means we are not to kill innocent people.  This cannot mean killing during a time of war, or execution of a murderer, because the same law that said we cannot kill allows for killing during war and demands murderers be put to death.  The question must then be asked, is an unborn baby a human being in the sight of God?  Clearly they are. 

 

One scripture I always go to in order to show this point is found in Luke 1:41.  Mary had just visited Elisabeth and told her that she was chosen to bear the Christ child.  Elisabeth was pregnant with John the Baptist.  In the eyes of the pro-choice crowd, John was only a blob of tissue, not fully human.  He was but a fetus, a zygote, and without any legal protections.  Notice how he is described?

 

And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb, and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. 

 

Next, you can turn to Jeremiah chapter 1.  God speaking to the prophet says the following in verse 5.

 

Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. 

 

Obviously, God didn't see Jeremiah as a fetus while he was in the womb, but he knew him by name, and as a prophet to the nations.  Next, turn over to Genesis chapter 25.  Rebekah became pregnant, and notice what it says in verses 22 and 23.  Again remember, she was only pregnant. The pro-choice people would say she had a fetus, or in this case, 2 fetuses in her womb, with no legal protections, and they would defend her right to abort.

 

And the children struggled together within her, and she said, If it be so, why am I thus?  And she went to enquire of the LORD.  And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels, and the one people shall be stronger than the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger. 

 

Again, God calls what pro-choicers call a fetus, children.  If this is not enough, I would suggest you do a search for pictures of aborted fetuses in the first trimester.  You won't find pictures of tissue, but you will find body parts: arms, legs, hands, feet, and a head. 

 

The thing about this story is, it says "white mainline protestants" are the least likely to find abortion immoral, while "white evangelical protestants" are the most likely to find abortion immoral.  What is the difference between these two groups?  Evangelicals are those who believe in the innerancy of scripture, and actually believe what God says.  Mainline protestants are those who believe in God, but deny the innerancy of scripture.  They are people that generally go by their own feelings, rather than scripture, in deciding what is right and what is wrong? 

[alphaparticle]

 

At the risk of provoking wrath and losing whatever popularity points I may or may not have, I will say that since I have converted over a year ago I have not understood the total opposition to abortion. When I came into the faith I did not see the vast majority of abortions (i.e. the earlier ones) as killing anyone at all, let alone murder. To be honest, I have yet to be persuaded it's murder (and therefore wrong). I am putting that out there not so much that I think anyone is obligated to convince me, but at least to express my honest consternation about this in the hopes maybe it will aid understanding the other side here.

I think all of us are aware that one of the 10 Commandments is "Thou Shalt Not Kill."  We know this means we are not to kill innocent people.  This cannot mean killing during a time of war, or execution of a murderer, because the same law that said we cannot kill allows for killing during war and demands murderers be put to death.  The question must then be asked, is an unborn baby a human being in the sight of God?  Clearly they are. 

 

One scripture I always go to in order to show this point is found in Luke 1:41.  Mary had just visited Elisabeth and told her that she was chosen to bear the Christ child.  Elisabeth was pregnant with John the Baptist.  In the eyes of the pro-choice crowd, John was only a blob of tissue, not fully human.  He was but a fetus, a zygote, and without any legal protections.  Notice how he is described?

 

And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb, and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. 

 

Next, you can turn to Jeremiah chapter 1.  God speaking to the prophet says the following in verse 5.

 

Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. 

 

Obviously, God didn't see Jeremiah as a fetus while he was in the womb, but he knew him by name, and as a prophet to the nations.  Next, turn over to Genesis chapter 25.  Rebekah became pregnant, and notice what it says in verses 22 and 23.  Again remember, she was only pregnant. The pro-choice people would say she had a fetus, or in this case, 2 fetuses in her womb, with no legal protections, and they would defend her right to abort.

 

And the children struggled together within her, and she said, If it be so, why am I thus?  And she went to enquire of the LORD.  And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels, and the one people shall be stronger than the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger. 

 

Again, God calls what pro-choicers call a fetus, children.  If this is not enough, I would suggest you do a search for pictures of aborted fetuses in the first trimester.  You won't find pictures of tissue, but you will find body parts: arms, legs, hands, feet, and a head. 

 

The thing about this story is, it says "white mainline protestants" are the least likely to find abortion immoral, while "white evangelical protestants" are the most likely to find abortion immoral.  What is the difference between these two groups?  Evangelicals are those who believe in the innerancy of scripture, and actually believe what God says.  Mainline protestants are those who believe in God, but deny the innerancy of scripture.  They are people that generally go by their own feelings, rather than scripture, in deciding what is right and what is wrong? 

 

Alright. I suppose my main struggle with using these verses is that the stage of the pregnancy is not clarified. If the issue is whether or not abortion is permitted in the first trimester and early part of second, which is when the vast majority of abortions take place, I'm not sure it helps clarify the situation. The Jeremiah verse is very interesting but it says that God knew him before he was ever even formed in the womb at all, so I don't see how that translates into an argument against abortion.

 

Unlike some other issues (notably homosexuality) I have not gotten a clear and undeniable 'hook' here by which to form a theologically based opinion. Nevertheless I appreciate you taking the time to lay out an argument and the verses are worthy of thought in regards to this issue.

[Guest Butero]

 

Alright. I suppose my main struggle with using these verses is that the stage of the pregnancy is not clarified. If the issue is whether or not abortion is permitted in the first trimester and early part of second, which is when the vast majority of abortions take place, I'm not sure it helps clarify the situation. The Jeremiah verse is very interesting but it says that God knew him before he was ever even formed in the womb at all, so I don't see how that translates into an argument against abortion.

 

Unlike some other issues (notably homosexuality) I have not gotten a clear and undeniable 'hook' here by which to form a theologically based opinion. Nevertheless I appreciate you taking the time to lay out an argument and the verses are worthy of thought in regards to this issue.

 

To me, the Jeremiah example shows that God consideres a person human from the moment they are reality in his mind.  It would stand to reason they are fully human to God from the moment of conception.  In addition to that, I would again ask that you do a search, and look up pictures of aborted fetuses in the first trimester?  To me, the Jeremiah scripture is proof positive that abortion is murder at any stage of pregnancy. 

[alphaparticle]

To me, the Jeremiah example shows that God consideres a person human from the moment they are reality in his mind.  It would stand to reason they are fully human to God from the moment of conception.  In addition to that, I would again ask that you do a search, and look up pictures of aborted fetuses in the first trimester?  To me, the Jeremiah scripture is proof positive that abortion is murder at any stage of pregnancy. 

 

 

I don't think that follows. Were they a person before the zygote formed? The moment before sperm and egg combined? That verse doesn't help clarify that sort of question.If God knew him before Jeremiah was formed in the womb, it doesn't say when Jeremiah came into being in the world. That a 10 wk old embryo has human morphological features doesn't really seem to answer the question much either. A black and white statement would help, but as that isn't the case, I will simply have to keep an open mind and look.

[Guest Butero]

I want to expand on the idea that we are fully human in the sight of God before we are in the womb.  If you go back to Luke 1:13, an angel was telling Zacharias that his wife was going to bear him a son.  He tells him the following:

 

But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias:  for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

 

In the mind of God, John was fully human before the conception took place.  The same thing happened with Mary.  In Luke 1:31, the angel told her:

 

And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name JESUS.

 

This baby was Jesus at all stages of development in the mind of God.  He didn't become Jesus at the beginning of the 2nd trimester.  He was already Jesus, as John was already John, and Jeremiah was already Jeremiah.  You can't go back further than before conception, and if God knows you before conception, what are we to think?  After conception, you are just a fetus till the 2nd trimester, and then God knows you again?  This makes no sense. 

 

BTW, have you ever seen an aborted baby in the first trimester?  Do you know how they kill a baby in the womb at various stages?  If you really want to know what abortion is, look it up and take a look for yourself.  I would also recommend you watch the film "Silent Scream" if you can find it?  It shows a first trimester abortion taking place on ultrasound. 

[FreeinChrist]

22)  If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23)  And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24)  Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

25)  Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Exodus 21:22-25 KJV

The NIV states verse 22 this way;

If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.

Exodus 21:22

 

I really think God states His thoughts on this matter here in this OT passage, in which if an unborn baby is harmed in any way by men, they will be required the same price of the injury.

 

Many including myself believe that the moment of our conception we become sinful, we get this from King David following remark;

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalms 53:5

David speaks on this more in Psalms 58:3

[Guest shiloh357]

At the risk of provoking wrath and losing whatever popularity points I may or may not have, I will say that since I have converted over a year ago I have not understood the total opposition to abortion. When I came into the faith I did not see the vast majority of abortions (i.e. the earlier ones) as killing anyone at all, let alone murder. To be honest, I have yet to be persuaded it's murder (and therefore wrong). I am putting that out there not so much that I think anyone is obligated to convince me, but at least to express my honest consternation about this in the hopes maybe it will aid understanding the other side here.

 

What is an unborn baby if it is not a human being?  Is there some magical thing that occurs in the birth canal that makes a baby human three seconds after it leaves the birth canal?   I mean those who claim abortion is not murder cannot present a rational case that unborn children are in fact non-human.  The only way to justify abortion is to dehumanize the entity whose life you want to end.

 

Hitler justified murdering Jews by claiming they were not human. That was the first step.  White superemists justify racism and murdering people of color by making the same dehumanizing claims about them.   The Palestinians justify murdering Jews by claiming they are descended from apes and pigs.

 

Abortion is really no different.  It is morally sanctioned murder on the grounds that unborn babies aren'r really human beings.  

 

On a side note, I have noted  that you can go to prison for disturbing a nest containing the eggs of unborn baby eagles.  The same government entitites and other environmental groups that will not lift a finger to protect unborn human offspring will prosecute those who mess around with unborn eagles.  No attempt is made to argue that unborn eagles are not really eagles.

 

To claim abortion is not murder is a logically inconsistent and irrational argument, especially given the science that proves an unborn baby is in fact a living human being and by that fact alone is guaranteed certain human rights.

 

The whole pr-abortion movement is predicated on deciding who lives and who dies based on what is convenient for the living.