Are their different levels of punishment in hell?

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

we don't have to wonder.  that numeral is derived from time spans used in geochronology, give or take half a billion years+.

but by definition, an eon is an indefinite amount of time, and so can be considered as 'eternal' because it progresses indefinitely...although i believe that eternity is the complete absence of time as we understand it.

 

here is an interesting look at a similar Latin word, "aevum".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aevum

 

<snip>

 

Although I do agree with you that eternity is the absence of time because it transcends temporal constraints. I think we have made the mistake of defining eternity in quantitative and chronological terms in describing our spiritual state with God. Rather, we have "eternity" with Him as long as we are abiding in Him. Hence, the emphasis here is not on time and quantitative but RELATIONSHIP and QUALITATIVE.

 

 

not to backtrack, but i meant to address this and  propose a question to you here.

obviously and as we have agreed, when speaking of eternal things time is not a factor.

 

your view seems true enough to me here from our temporal standpoint, but not an eternal one..

correct me if i am wrong, but it seems like you are equating God with eternity in some way..

God is not eternity.  we can only speculate on a timeless existence, and i don't believe we should be assigning values to it as if it was somehow mysteriously linked to our relationship with God.

we are given the gift of eternal life, but that eternal life is not God.

 

forgive me if i am way off, and you are only implying that we can spiritually "have eternity" NOW.

 

 

but i digress.  what then would your view be on the flip side of this concept, as stated in Rev. 20:10?

 

in other words:

 

considering our spiritual state as one in which we have an "Eternal and Qualitative Relationship" With God, in contrast how would you describe a spiritual state "Without God"?

 

would such a state not necessarily be "eternal" as well?

 

 

is that what i am doing?  i wasn't aware.  because if eon is derived from aeon, then we are discussing the ancient Greek definition.

the word eon just happens to have a modern application in geochronology, which i only pointed out because you were wondering about the numbers.

 

yes, the English word eon is derived from the Greek aeon but I now understand you point of reference

 

and i am not implying it progresses indefinitely...that's what it does, by definition.  lol.

it is a perpetual period of time, never-ending, indefinite.  an end is not known, predicted or forecasted.  from our finite understanding, it is essentially infinite.

 

how about Thayer's then?

 

G165

αἰών

aiōn

Thayer Definition:

1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

2) the worlds, universe

3) period of time, age

 

A lexicon while useful, is limited in that it only surveys the usage of words employed in the text. It does not determine whether the translation of the word is accurate and is appropriate for its context. That task is reserved for the reader, i.e., you and I.  This is what Vincent said regarding aion in his Word Studies in the New Testament:

 

Aiwn transliterated eon, is a period of time of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri oujranou, i. 9, 15) says: "The period which includes the whole time of each one's life is called the eon of each one." Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one's life (aiwn) is said to leave him or to consume away (Il. v. 685; Od. v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenniam; the mytho-logical period before the beginnings of history. The word has not "a stationary and mechanical value" (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many eons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one eon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow's life, another of an oak's life. The length of the eon depends on the subject to which it is attached....The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity. It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting.

 

 

 

interesting.

 

do you believe our souls can die?

 

if so, then how would you describe the whole period of time ( or eon ) of your soul, within a timeless existence?

[fruitfull77]

Eternal life is a gift from God-why would He give you eternal life tormented as most believe?

[enoob57]

Good idea - let's make it simple

Isaiah 33:14

Afraid in Zion have been sinners, Seized hath trembling the profane: Who doth dwell for us -- consuming fire, Who doth dwell for us -- burnings of the age? YLT

 

Your view = "Forever" (eternity) OR my view = "of the age" (a fixed period of time)?

 

A simple survey of the Old Testament reveals that olam does not mean forever or everlasting as you claim.

Jonah 2:6

I went down to the moorings of the mountains;

The earth with its bars closed behind me forever [OLAM];

Yet You have brought up my life from the pit,

O Lord, my God.

NKJV

According to your view, Jonah was in the fish's belly forever.  Jonah was in the fish for 3 days and 3 nights, not forever.

 

This is violation of context for you cannot speak for Jonah as you have never been where he was!  Jonah is

simply giving his heart felt response to the situation of being in the whales belly-> which no other man has been in or

at least recorded to have been in... to Jonah at that time was the hopelessness of his situation and the judgment in  

which he thought was going to be forever in that place (no escape!) *YET*

 

"Yet You have brought up my life from the pit, O Lord, my God."

 

this is key that Jonah although with out hope and was receiving what was his due

by faith in God alone he began to pray...

 

He certainly did not know God would hear his prayer and three days later be vomited

out on dry land!  So in your massacre of progressive revelation in the life of Jonah and

his personal witness of an amazing experience you have arrived at wrong understanding

of Jon 2:6... Love, Steven

[missmuffet]

It is still hell.It is still eternal torment and punishment.It is not like someone is sitting over in the corner playing around and existing very comfortably.

[RustyAngeL]

I don't believe their different levels no.  Hell is hell.  Once there you are cut off from all other souls,  You will be total isolated, you will never hear another human voice, or see anyone again.  It is total outer darkness.  There is a total absence of God or any light.  I cannot imagine anything worse.

[fruitfull77]

It is still hell.It is still eternal torment and punishment.It is not like someone is sitting over in the corner playing around and existing very comfortably.

Eternal torment would be a contradiction of scripture.

The soul that sins dies-our reward promised by Jesus is eternal life with Him. The penalty for those unrepentant is death-the extinguishing of the human spirit forever, not a perpetual torture in some far off place-that is a pagan belief

[missmuffet]

 

It is still hell.It is still eternal torment and punishment.It is not like someone is sitting over in the corner playing around and existing very comfortably.

Eternal torment would be a contradiction of scripture.

The soul that sins dies-our reward promised by Jesus is eternal life with Him. The penalty for those unrepentant is death-the extinguishing of the human spirit forever, not a perpetual torture in some far off place-that is a pagan belief

 

Yes,it is eternal torment.No those who are in hell do not just die.They have a conscious horrible eternal punishment for an eternity.If you want scripture for this I can give it to you.

[enoob57]

death in the judgment is not end like the concept of those not born again but a continuance without God and all that comprises...

[Elhanan]

 

Although I do agree with you that eternity is the absence of time because it transcends temporal constraints. I think we have made the mistake of defining eternity in quantitative and chronological terms in describing our spiritual state with God. Rather, we have "eternity" with Him as long as we are abiding in Him. Hence, the emphasis here is not on time and quantitative but RELATIONSHIP and QUALITATIVE.

 

 

not to backtrack, but i meant to address this and  propose a question to you here.

obviously and as we have agreed, when speaking of eternal things time is not a factor.

 

your view seems true enough to me here from our temporal standpoint, but not an eternal one..

correct me if i am wrong, but it seems like you are equating God with eternity in some way..

God is not eternity.  we can only speculate on a timeless existence, and i don't believe we should be assigning values to it as if it was somehow mysteriously linked to our relationship with God.

we are given the gift of eternal life, but that eternal life is not God.

God is eternal as he transcends time and space.  Let me offer this quote from the heavendwellers website to describe that which I agree with:

“We must be careful of how we define eternity. ETERNITY IS A STATE OF ABSOLUTE TIMELESSNESS, not of unending time. Eternity is a STATE OF BEING, resident in the very nature and person of God in which such concepts as past, present, future, before, after, change, transition, growth, decay, etc. do not exist. It is wrong to assert that, when time ends, eternity will begin, because eternity has no beginning.” Neither did it end when time began….Time is not part of eternity; eternity is not composed of segments of time. Eternity is not time standing still; it is simply not time at all. Eternity doesn't go on and on and on, ad infinitum. Eternity doesn't go anywhere, nor does it do anything. Eternity simply IS. Eternity is part of the very nature and person of God. Eternity transcends beyond our knowing anything having to do with time. It is not time at all. It is just a glorious experience of BEING! Eternity simply IS, just as God simply IS. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM" (Jn. 8:58) - not "Before Abraham was, I WAS." There are not past or future tenses in eternity. There is only one eternal NOW.

 

Therefore I think eternity for Christians is not based on limitless time as we commonly perceive but instead based on our STATE OF BEING IN RELATIONSHIP TO GOD

 

forgive me if i am way off, and you are only implying that we can spiritually "have eternity" NOW.

Yes we can experience eternal [aionios] life now in the sense that it is defined by our relationship with God.  Essentially we now have “eternal” life with God as long as we are abiding with Him.  We are the branches, Jesus is the vine.  Believers have aionios life as long as they remain connected to the vine.  It is as Jesus said an abundant life.  It is interesting to me that when Jesus described the reason for his coming he described salvific life in terms of its quality [abundance] and not in terms of its time.

 

but i digress.  what then would your view be on the flip side of this concept, as stated in Rev. 20:10?

 

in other words:

 

considering our spiritual state as one in which we have an "Eternal and Qualitative Relationship" With God, in contrast how would you describe a spiritual state "Without God"?

 

would such a state not necessarily be "eternal" as well?

Again, we must be mindful of our definition in order to be consistent in our application.  If aionios life refers to our state of being in relationship to God, then to not have aionios life means NOT being in a state of relationship to God.  In other words separation from God –  to the ages of the ages.

 

 

is that what i am doing?  i wasn't aware.  because if eon is derived from aeon, then we are discussing the ancient Greek definition.

the word eon just happens to have a modern application in geochronology, which i only pointed out because you were wondering about the numbers.

 

yes, the English word eon is derived from the Greek aeon but I now understand you point of reference

 

and i am not implying it progresses indefinitely...that's what it does, by definition.  lol.

it is a perpetual period of time, never-ending, indefinite.  an end is not known, predicted or forecasted.  from our finite understanding, it is essentially infinite.

 

how about Thayer's then?

 

G165

αἰών

aiōn

Thayer Definition:

1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

2) the worlds, universe

3) period of time, age. 

 

A lexicon while useful, is limited in that it only surveys the usage of words employed in the text. It does not determine whether the translation of the word is accurate and is appropriate for its context. That task is reserved for the reader, i.e., you and I.  This is what Vincent said regarding aion in his Word Studies in the New Testament:

 

Aiwn transliterated eon, is a period of time of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri oujranou, i. 9, 15) says: "The period which includes the whole time of each one's life is called the eon of each one." Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one's life (aiwn) is said to leave him or to consume away (Il. v. 685; Od. v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenniam; the mytho-logical period before the beginnings of history. The word has not "a stationary and mechanical value" (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many eons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one eon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow's life, another of an oak's life. The length of the eon depends on the subject to which it is attached....The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity. It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting.

 

 

 

interesting.

 

do you believe our souls can die?

 

if so, then how would you describe the whole period of time ( or eon ) of your soul, within a timeless existence?

I don't know whether souls can die - I'm not even sure if we have souls as I have not studied for myself the tripartite vs. bipartite issue. This is conjecture on my part but if a thing such as a soul exists within a timeless existence then the use of the Greek word aidios [eternal] would be appropriate rather than aiwn.

[missmuffet]

Eternal life is a gift from God-why would He give you eternal life tormented as most believe?

Because those who are believers will have an eternal life in Heaven with Jesus Christ.Those who are not believers will have an eternal life in  hell.