Are their different levels of punishment in hell?

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

 

e·on   [ee-uhn, ee-on]

noun

1.

an indefinitely long period of time; age.

2.

the largest division of geologic time, comprising two or more eras.

3.

Astronomy . one billion years.

Also, aeon.

Origin: 

 see aeon

 

aeon or esp  ( US ) eon  (ˈiːən, ˈiːɒn, ˈiːən, ˈiːɒn)    — n

1.

an immeasurably long period of time; age

2.

a period of one thousand million years

3.

( often capital ) gnosticism  one of the powers emanating from the supreme being and culminating in the demiurge

 

[C17: from Greek aiōn  an infinitely long time]

eon or esp  ( US ) eon   — n   [C17: from Greek aiōn  an infinitely long time]

 

 

 

it certainly looks like infinity to me, because i surely can't comprehend an existence of 'one thousand million years'.

 

It certainly would feel like an eternity but one has to wonder how they came up with that definitive numerical figure out of thin air.

 

 

we don't have to wonder.  that numeral is derived from time spans used in geochronology, give or take half a billion years+.

but by definition, an eon is an indefinite amount of time, and so can be considered as 'eternal' because it progresses indefinitely...although i believe that eternity is the complete absence of time as we understand it.

 

here is an interesting look at a similar Latin word, "aevum".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aevum

[Elhanan]

we don't have to wonder.  that numeral is derived from time spans used in geochronology, give or take half a billion years+.

but by definition, an eon is an indefinite amount of time, and so can be considered as 'eternal' because it progresses indefinitely...although i believe that eternity is the complete absence of time as we understand it.

 

here is an interesting look at a similar Latin word, "aevum".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aevum

 

One must be very careful in using modern day definitions and applying them to the ancient Greek text.  While ages of the ages most certainly appears to be a long period of time, I very much doubt that the writers of the NT obtained their definition and understanding from the field geochronology. An eon is an undefined but finite period of time with a beginning and an end and cannot be construed as eternal. And an eon of time does not have to progress indefinitely as you imply as it has a fixed beginning and a fixed end. Although I do agree with you that eternity is the absence of time because it transcends temporal constraints. I think we have made the mistake of defining eternity in quantitative and chronological terms in describing our spiritual state with God. Rather, we have "eternity" with Him as long as we are abiding in Him. Hence, the emphasis here is not on time and quantitative but RELATIONSHIP and QUALITATIVE.

[enoob57]

 

 

 

 

Nevertheless, if one insists that forever and ever is the correct translation, that cannot be true as aion in its form in this verse is in the PLURAL both times.  Thus the verse would have to read “forevers and evers” which makes absolutely no sense.  How can there be eternities plus eternities? 

 

This is exactly your failing in this- eternity is unbounded therefore that which is eternity is also unbounded...

so there are endless eternities all without bounds as that which is without bounds remains unbounded...

you have to let go of the very fabric of your beginning

Eph 1:4

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

NKJV

then the before to accept the faith concept of eternity. It simply 'IS'

without experience except by God Himself!  The journey we are on (those born of God) are moving into

that eternal experience moment by moment without end... 

 

You are merely drawing from you own source which is unable to concede to that which has no bounds!

Love, Steven

 

I find it difficult to follow your rationale and would say that it seems like your imagination has no bounds. I still don't find in your words why the Greek equivalents must be translated as eternity/eternal. 

 

Very revealing of your limitations... anything you cannot encompass you dismiss as though you were the authority! But of course we know God alone holds that position...

We also know Him in the plural state of Trinity - placing eternity and plurality together! Here is another person shrinker for you- this known universe and that being all that

we have been born into (first birth) is just one way of an infinite set of possible ways God could have set forth His Creative communication to us= understood by (second

birth)... I am very familiar with The Word and it clearly teach hell is without end...

Mark 9:43-48

 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched —  

                                                                                              44 where

                                                                                                   'Their worm does not die

                                                                                                 And the fire is not quenched.'

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched —  

                                                                                             46 where

                                                                                                  'Their worm does not die

                                                                                                And the fire is not quenched.'

47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire —  

                                                                                            48 where

                                                                                                   'Their worm does not die

                                                                                                 And the fire is not quenched.'

                                                                                                 NKJV

 

Matt 25:41

41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

NKJV

Matt 25:45-46

  46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

NKJV

 

 

Isa 33:14

14 The sinners in Zion are afraid;

Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:

"Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?

Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"

NKJV

this is Hebrew here and there is no mistaking

 

Love, Steven

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

we don't have to wonder.  that numeral is derived from time spans used in geochronology, give or take half a billion years+.

but by definition, an eon is an indefinite amount of time, and so can be considered as 'eternal' because it progresses indefinitely...although i believe that eternity is the complete absence of time as we understand it.

 

here is an interesting look at a similar Latin word, "aevum".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aevum

 

One must be very careful in using modern day definitions and applying them to the ancient Greek text.  While ages of the ages most certainly appears to be a long period of time, I very much doubt that the writers of the NT obtained their definition and understanding from the field geochronology. An eon is an undefined but finite period of time with a beginning and an end and cannot be construed as eternal. And an eon of time does not have to progress indefinitely as you imply as it has a fixed beginning and a fixed end. Although I do agree with you that eternity is the absence of time because it transcends temporal constraints. I think we have made the mistake of defining eternity in quantitative and chronological terms in describing our spiritual state with God. Rather, we have "eternity" with Him as long as we are abiding in Him. Hence, the emphasis here is not on time and quantitative but RELATIONSHIP and QUALITATIVE.

 

 

is that what i am doing?  i wasn't aware.  because if eon is derived from aeon, then we are discussing the ancient Greek definition.

the word eon just happens to have a modern application in geochronology, which i only pointed out because you were wondering about the numbers.

 

and i am not implying it progresses indefinitely...that's what it does, by definition.  lol.

it is a perpetual period of time, never-ending, indefinite.  an end is not known, predicted or forecasted.  from our finite understanding, it is essentially infinite.

 

how about Thayer's then?

 

G165

αἰών

aiōn

Thayer Definition:

1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

2) the worlds, universe

3) period of time, age

[Elhanan]

Steven: I readily admit that I am very limited in my understanding and acknowledged such in trying to apprehend your response.  In contrast to you who claims God aligns himself with your view thus making what you claim to believe as automatically authoritative. That is presumptuous as your interpretation, or mine for that matter, though sincerely held - could be sincerely wrong.  I find your writing to be vague and employing terms which are unique and I haven't heard of before such as "plural state of Trinity."  If you mean the trinity in terms of a plurality of persons, I understand that but I don't think that is what you mean.  As for the scriptures you cited you offer them without any interpretation/explanation of your own which constitutes as proof-texting which makes for a very weak argument.  Someone who is familiar with the Word as you are should at least be able to offer a modicum of interaction with the text in order to advance your viewpoint.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Elhanan

[enoob57]

Steven: I readily admit that I am very limited in my understanding and acknowledged such in trying to apprehend your response.  In contrast to you who claims God aligns himself with your view thus making what you claim to believe as automatically authoritative. That is presumptuous as your interpretation, or mine for that matter, though sincerely held - could be sincerely wrong.  I find your writing to be vague and employing terms which are unique and I haven't heard of before such as "plural state of Trinity."  If you mean the trinity in terms of a plurality of persons, I understand that but I don't think that is what you mean. You were having difficulty in placing eternity with plurality -eternities-  God in His Own Person does not!   As for the scriptures you cited you offer them without any interpretation/explanation of your own which constitutes as proof-texting which makes for a very weak argument.  Someone who is familiar with the Word as you are should at least be able to offer a modicum of interaction with the text in order to advance your viewpoint.

My Friend quit looking at what I say as complex but that of simple! God Speaks for Himself in His Word and precept upon precept line upon line we grow in His Word

to a more useful person in His service to His Glory! The OT word 'olam  in Isaiah 33:14 was enough to show you your understanding of the greek text was in error...  Love, Steven

[Montana Marv]

Complex question

 

What is "time" when there is no time?

 

When we have our glorified bodies as Christs body is also glorified, we are in a different dimension.  Time becomes obsolete after the Great White Throne Judgment, no more sin, no more death.  Death is swallowed up in Victory.  As long as we are in our earthly bodies, we are bound by time.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[missmuffet]

Complex question

 

What is "time" when there is no time?

 

When we have our glorified bodies as Christs body is also glorified, we are in a different dimension.  Time becomes obsolete after the Great White Throne Judgment, no more sin, no more death.  Death is swallowed up in Victory.  As long as we are in our earthly bodies, we are bound by time.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yes

[Elhanan]

is that what i am doing?  i wasn't aware.  because if eon is derived from aeon, then we are discussing the ancient Greek definition.

the word eon just happens to have a modern application in geochronology, which i only pointed out because you were wondering about the numbers.

 

yes, the English word eon is derived from the Greek aeon but I now understand you point of reference

 

and i am not implying it progresses indefinitely...that's what it does, by definition.  lol.

it is a perpetual period of time, never-ending, indefinite.  an end is not known, predicted or forecasted.  from our finite understanding, it is essentially infinite.

 

how about Thayer's then?

 

G165

αἰών

aiōn

Thayer Definition:

1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

2) the worlds, universe

3) period of time, age

 

A lexicon while useful, is limited in that it only surveys the usage of words employed in the text. It does not determine whether the translation of the word is accurate and is appropriate for its context. That task is reserved for the reader, i.e., you and I.  This is what Vincent said regarding aion in his Word Studies in the New Testament:

 

Aiwn transliterated eon, is a period of time of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri oujranou, i. 9, 15) says: "The period which includes the whole time of each one's life is called the eon of each one." Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one's life (aiwn) is said to leave him or to consume away (Il. v. 685; Od. v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenniam; the mytho-logical period before the beginnings of history. The word has not "a stationary and mechanical value" (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many eons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one eon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow's life, another of an oak's life. The length of the eon depends on the subject to which it is attached....The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity. It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting.

 

[Elhanan]

 

Steven: I readily admit that I am very limited in my understanding and acknowledged such in trying to apprehend your response.  In contrast to you who claims God aligns himself with your view thus making what you claim to believe as automatically authoritative. That is presumptuous as your interpretation, or mine for that matter, though sincerely held - could be sincerely wrong.  I find your writing to be vague and employing terms which are unique and I haven't heard of before such as "plural state of Trinity."  If you mean the trinity in terms of a plurality of persons, I understand that but I don't think that is what you mean. You were having difficulty in placing eternity with plurality -eternities-  God in His Own Person does not!   As for the scriptures you cited you offer them without any interpretation/explanation of your own which constitutes as proof-texting which makes for a very weak argument.  Someone who is familiar with the Word as you are should at least be able to offer a modicum of interaction with the text in order to advance your viewpoint.

My Friend quit looking at what I say as complex but that of simple! God Speaks for Himself in His Word and precept upon precept line upon line we grow in His Word

to a more useful person in His service to His Glory! The OT word 'olam  in Isaiah 33:14 was enough to show you your understanding of the greek text was in error...  Love, Steven

 

Good idea - let's make it simple

Isaiah 33:14

Afraid in Zion have been sinners, Seized hath trembling the profane: Who doth dwell for us -- consuming fire, Who doth dwell for us -- burnings of the age? YLT

 

Your view = "Forever" (eternity) OR my view = "of the age" (a fixed period of time)?

 

A simple survey of the Old Testament reveals that olam does not mean forever or everlasting as you claim.

Jonah 2:6

I went down to the moorings of the mountains;

The earth with its bars closed behind me forever [OLAM];

Yet You have brought up my life from the pit,

O Lord, my God.

NKJV

According to your view, Jonah was in the fish's belly forever.  Jonah was in the fish for 3 days and 3 nights, not forever.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Elhanan