Steve_S Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2013 he is still an American citizen. He may receive asylum, but in doing so, he can not return here without being subject to our laws. Well, of course not, but what if he chooses not to return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 2,025 Topics Per Day: 0.47 Content Count: 48,899 Content Per Day: 11.45 Reputation: 30,484 Days Won: 227 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2013 he is still an American citizen. He may receive asylum, but in doing so, he can not return here without being subject to our laws. Well, of course not, but what if he chooses not to return? Then he pays the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2013 he is still an American citizen. He may receive asylum, but in doing so, he can not return here without being subject to our laws. Well, of course not, but what if he chooses not to return? Then he pays the consequences. Which are freedom in a different country versus incarceration here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 622 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 57,286 Content Per Day: 7.57 Reputation: 29,003 Days Won: 280 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2013 he is still an American citizen. He may receive asylum, but in doing so, he can not return here without being subject to our laws. Well, of course not, but what if he chooses not to return? can't answer that without knowing what he actually has had access to, and what information he has with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.95 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 15, 2013 he is still an American citizen. He may receive asylum, but in doing so, he can not return here without being subject to our laws. Well, of course not, but what if he chooses not to return? can't answer that without knowing what he actually has had access to, and what information he has with him. He can't return and he is stateless. Remember the USA withdrew his passport, effectively isolating him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.95 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I support his actions, and so far I don't see how he has endangered anyone's life. Far from being a traitor and a spy, perhaps in my eyes, so far, he has done the right thing. Obscure as much as they want, the USA and UK governments were breaking their own laws, and a good few international ones as well. Diverting the plane of the President of a sovereign country, elected by his people, while on an official trip, was sheer bully tactics, and the reward of that is yet to be reaped. It shows desperation and only goes to raise international public support for Snowden. He has information about our cyber war activities with China that he tried to peddle for his safety. We do not know yet how much he gave them or will give them in the future. Same holds true for every country he is begging to stay in. And sadly, our governments didn't break their own laws, at least the US didn't. With the passage of the PATRIOT Act and a couple other laws that were widely supported when they were passed, the US government gave themselves the right to do these things. They gave themselves the right to eavesdrop on Luxembourg? Or divert and harass a foreign presidents plane? If this had been Airforce One what would have been the result? Bombing! The oft used US response. I'm only trying to b e a voice of reason when I say the following: NO ONE diverts Air Force One as it is not a commericail aircraft and is accompanied by U.S. fighter jets at all times. And, gandolph, if the U.S. bombed everyone who made us mad, half the world would be smoldering ruins. Let's be fair here. There's the prideful, bully boy attitude the whole of Latin America is this time, right about! The President of a sovereign South American nation has his "airforce one" diverted on Washington's "advice", and the nations he is flying over "comply". This is bordering on an act of war against a foreign president. NO ONE had the right to do this. It is no wonder the Latin American countries have reacted as they have, and recalled ambassadors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 377 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2013 do you not grasp the concept of the word "if" or is it that you don't comprehend the written words? OK. So "if" Snowden has not disclosed issues of national security to the Russians/Chinese, what should happen to those in Government who have lied and deceived about what they have been up to? And what, also in that event, should happen to Snowden? We're a nation of laws Gandolf, and whistle blowers do have some legal safeguards. He should return home and let things proceed through the system..... and all who have broken the law should be held accountable. Snowden as well as the others. One thing that many don't seem to understand is that to participate in civil disobedience, one must be prepared to shoulder the legal consequences. Most everyone who signed our declaration of independence lost everything they had.And what should happen to those in Government who have lied to and deceived the American people and arguably contravened the Constitution? Do they get off scott-free, because they have power, money and control of information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 377 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2013 I support his actions, and so far I don't see how he has endangered anyone's life. Far from being a traitor and a spy, perhaps in my eyes, so far, he has done the right thing. Obscure as much as they want, the USA and UK governments were breaking their own laws, and a good few international ones as well. Diverting the plane of the President of a sovereign country, elected by his people, while on an official trip, was sheer bully tactics, and the reward of that is yet to be reaped. It shows desperation and only goes to raise international public support for Snowden. He has information about our cyber war activities with China that he tried to peddle for his safety. We do not know yet how much he gave them or will give them in the future. Same holds true for every country he is begging to stay in. And sadly, our governments didn't break their own laws, at least the US didn't. With the passage of the PATRIOT Act and a couple other laws that were widely supported when they were passed, the US government gave themselves the right to do these things.They gave themselves the right to eavesdrop on Luxembourg? Or divert and harass a foreign presidents plane? If this had been Airforce One what would have been the result?Bombing! The oft used US response.I'm only trying to b e a voice of reason when I say the following: NO ONE diverts Air Force One as it is not a commericail aircraft and is accompanied by U.S. fighter jets at all times. And, gandolph, if the U.S. bombed everyone who made us mad, half the world would be smoldering ruins. Let's be fair here. Many would say that's exactly what America has done to many countries that don't have nukes! Hence NK and Iran are taking what is in their eyes a wise road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 5.97 Reputation: 9,978 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2013 I support his actions, and so far I don't see how he has endangered anyone's life. Far from being a traitor and a spy, perhaps in my eyes, so far, he has done the right thing. Obscure as much as they want, the USA and UK governments were breaking their own laws, and a good few international ones as well. Diverting the plane of the President of a sovereign country, elected by his people, while on an official trip, was sheer bully tactics, and the reward of that is yet to be reaped. It shows desperation and only goes to raise international public support for Snowden. He has information about our cyber war activities with China that he tried to peddle for his safety. We do not know yet how much he gave them or will give them in the future. Same holds true for every country he is begging to stay in. And sadly, our governments didn't break their own laws, at least the US didn't. With the passage of the PATRIOT Act and a couple other laws that were widely supported when they were passed, the US government gave themselves the right to do these things. They gave themselves the right to eavesdrop on Luxembourg? Or divert and harass a foreign presidents plane? If this had been Airforce One what would have been the result? Bombing! The oft used US response. I'm only trying to b e a voice of reason when I say the following: NO ONE diverts Air Force One as it is not a commericail aircraft and is accompanied by U.S. fighter jets at all times. And, gandolph, if the U.S. bombed everyone who made us mad, half the world would be smoldering ruins. Let's be fair here. There's the prideful, bully boy attitude the whole of Latin America is this time, right about! The President of a sovereign South American nation has his "airforce one" diverted on Washington's "advice", and the nations he is flying over "comply". This is bordering on an act of war against a foreign president. NO ONE had the right to do this. It is no wonder the Latin American countries have reacted as they have, and recalled ambassadors. Fez, the Bolivian President was flying commercially; that is why he could be diverted. No one was looking for him, they were looking for Snowden. And it wasn't the U.S. who diverted that plane, it was Austria. I don't think it's prideful or 'bully boy' to state the truth about our President's plane either. Why does everyone think our government bullies everyone else? This whole Snowden thing shows that we do NOT force other countries to do things our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 15, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.95 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I support his actions, and so far I don't see how he has endangered anyone's life. Far from being a traitor and a spy, perhaps in my eyes, so far, he has done the right thing. Obscure as much as they want, the USA and UK governments were breaking their own laws, and a good few international ones as well. Diverting the plane of the President of a sovereign country, elected by his people, while on an official trip, was sheer bully tactics, and the reward of that is yet to be reaped. It shows desperation and only goes to raise international public support for Snowden. He has information about our cyber war activities with China that he tried to peddle for his safety. We do not know yet how much he gave them or will give them in the future. Same holds true for every country he is begging to stay in. And sadly, our governments didn't break their own laws, at least the US didn't. With the passage of the PATRIOT Act and a couple other laws that were widely supported when they were passed, the US government gave themselves the right to do these things. They gave themselves the right to eavesdrop on Luxembourg? Or divert and harass a foreign presidents plane? If this had been Airforce One what would have been the result? Bombing! The oft used US response. I'm only trying to b e a voice of reason when I say the following: NO ONE diverts Air Force One as it is not a commericail aircraft and is accompanied by U.S. fighter jets at all times. And, gandolph, if the U.S. bombed everyone who made us mad, half the world would be smoldering ruins. Let's be fair here. There's the prideful, bully boy attitude the whole of Latin America is this time, right about! The President of a sovereign South American nation has his "airforce one" diverted on Washington's "advice", and the nations he is flying over "comply". This is bordering on an act of war against a foreign president. NO ONE had the right to do this. It is no wonder the Latin American countries have reacted as they have, and recalled ambassadors. Fez, the Bolivian President was flying commercially; that is why he could be diverted. No one was looking for him, they were looking for Snowden. And it wasn't the U.S. who diverted that plane, it was Austria. I don't think it's prideful or 'bully boy' to state the truth about our President's plane either. Why does everyone think our government bullies everyone else? This whole Snowden thing shows that we do NOT force other countries to do things our way. Did you see the "commercial" jet? And no it wasn't Austria, or France (who has since apologized) that were looking for Snowden. Only one country in the world cares enough about Snowden to divert a President flying from an official visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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