Gay Christians who choose celibacy.....

[Guest shiloh357]

Ok so what, they don't have a firm grip.  Who does, you nor I most certianly don't. We may understand aspects of what God calls sin, but our grip is just as flimsy as the next mans.

 

 

 

You can speak for yourself on that one.  I will not be included in your admitted biblical illiteracy. I have a very firm grip on what sin is.  I have studied the Bible long enough to be very, very well acquainted with how God views sin and how He defines it.  It is not hard and to claim that you don't have a firm grip on it would explain your inability to understand simple biblical concepts expressed in this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

Let me ask you something, do you speed or do you always go the speed limit? 

  

 

 

 

 

Sure I go the speed limit, give or take one mile over or under.   I don't speed and have no reason to.  Not sure what that has to do with anything.   Trying equivicate speeding with Homosexulity is a rather ridiculous line of argumentation.

 

 

 

The fact is yes they do not think that being attracted to the same sex is sinful.  So because of this you believe they are not repentant of being homosexuals.  Are we on the same page?  If not please let me know how I am vewing what you are saying incorrectly.  

 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

I don't understand how it doesn't we are dealing with sin correct, or what we view as sin and other don't.  Thats what this all boils down too. 

 

 

 

 

It doens't apply because you are talking about smoking weed, which is not expressly mentinoed in Scripture whereas homosexuality is.   They are unrepentant about being gay and reject the Bible's claim that it s a sin because they have bought intot he lie that they are born with a sexual orientation that makes them attracted to the same sex.  Thus they are essentially calling God a liar.   Smoking weed, stupid as it is, is not really analogous to the issue at hand. 

 

 

They don't view being attracted to the same sex as being sin.  I don't view smoking weed as being sin.

 

Not the same thing.  Not that we cannot draw on God's behavioral paradigm to determine what God would think about it if He had directly addressed the act of smoking weed.  No one smokes weed to just smoke it.  They can get ciggarrettes for that, much cheeper.  No one speads a small fortune on MJ to smoke unless they intend to get high.  That is just common knowledge.  To suggest otherwise is a foolish and nonsnesical argument that denies what we inturitively observe about pot smokers.

 

 

 

Speeding is not mentioned in the Bible either, but is it sin when we do it? 

 

 

 

 

It violates the Scripture that says we are to obey the laws of the land.  One can use God's behavioral paradigm to answer that.

 

 

 

[quoe]You said I am unrepentant because I feel its okay to smoke weed. 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

 

Where do you glean that they are enjoying the attraction from what you read.  While they have accepted it as apart of who they are I find no where in the article where it says they enjoy or even attempt to justify it.  Simply put they have accepted that they are attracted to the same sex, but they will not act out on that. 

  

 

 

 

I was making a general statement about how people deal with sin.  If you enjoy it, harbor it, justify it, then you are not repentant. I don't know how simpler I can make it.   Show me a repentant person who continues to view their sin as not really sin.  How exactly does one repent of sin they don't really see as sin???

 

They accept they are attracted to the opposite sex, but if you show them it is a sin, they will disagree and probably explain (justify) why they don't believe that the biblical commandments apply to them.

[enoob57]

 

 

Actually I have no clue what you are talking about.  The only thing that was clear is the Highest Law is God's.....Agreed!!  As for the rest of your stament it was pretty jumbled in rhetoric and riddle.  Try being a little simpler....matter a fact try answering the question?  I have expressed a certian feeling, basically becoming vulnerable to those here.  I welcome what you say, but can you make it clear.  Shiloh was at least succcinct in what he stated. I would appreicate if I could get the same from you. 

 

 

enoob's reply:

Point in fact You stated smoking pot is wrong because it is against the law... no it wrong because it violates first the original creation of God... it is

a perversion by evil and it is  also against the law -period!  If it becomes legal it is still wrong because of perversion of original creation.  First fallacy 

corrected in your statement!

 

 

 

Thanks Enoob, so much better.

 

Basically this is your opinion, based upon how you feel about that matter. Where is your basis of saying it violates the first creation of God. Again I see you only dealt with weed because of your distain.  Do you speed?  Please deal with that also.

 

Point in fact you said " While these ones who identify as gay may not find the attraction sinful, they do find laying with the same sex as sinful." 

While using your first fallacy now you move on to validate your second fallacy that being a man and desiring a man may not wrong but  doing it is

wrong ... homosexuality is a rebellion against original creation and has no place of purpose in its use but to be perversion against God's original design!

Whether law permits or not it remains and abomination both the desire of and the act!

Love, Steven

 

 

Apparantly you missed the point entirely.  We are not talking about weather homosexuality is lawful or not.  Yes the attraction to a person of the same sex is unnatural and against the order of things, but how do you deem someone as unrepentant because they may not view it as such?  While they don't view the attraction as sinful, they do view giving themselves over the attraction as sinful.  My point is very solid.  While I don't view smoking weed as sinful (we don't agree btw) I do see it as being sinful to smoke due to the laws.  While you may want to approach this as a fallacy it is not.  It is very simple...if you judge one as unrepentant based on what we view as sinful or not then what place does that put us in?  We ALL are in a heck of a lot fo trouble.   

 

 

 

Obvious is the word of the day for you! It is obvious common sense does not play a part in your reasoning! You can look at the lungs of smokers

and the lungs of those who did not and the undisputed fact of original design is clearly seen by the damage to one and not to the other.... come on this is a given!

 

Also obvious is the fact that sin begins in the desire and the outward act is just a witness to the inward desire... not doing  the outward act only adds to the

hypocrisy of the situation... I want to but I hide the desire by not acting upon what I want...

 

Besides this is all made mute by the statement of God anyway who judges from the heart:

Ps 7:9-10

9 Oh, let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end,

But establish the just;

For the righteous God tests the hearts and minds.

10 My defense is of God,

Who saves the upright in heart.

NKJV

Prov 15:11

11 Hell and Destruction are before the Lord;

So how much more the hearts of the sons of men.

NKJV

Heb 4:12-13

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword,

piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a

discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

NKJV

Love. Steven

[Gerioke]

Just curious - how does anyone interpret Matt, 19:11,12?

I am questioning this because of the word celibate - a word we use today instead of the word eunuch. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

 

Not quite the same thing as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celibacy

[Guest shiloh357]

Just curious - how does anyone interpret Matt, 19:11,12?

I am questioning this because of the word celibate - a word we use today instead of the word eunuch. 

 

 

 

 

 

There are people who remain unmarried and thus sexually pure because they can serve God better in that way.  That is not the same as those who take a vow of celibacy thinking that the act of celibacy will somehow make them closer to God. The latter are carnal and have their focus skewed on the wrong things.  Their focus is not on building the Kingdom, but using celbacy as some mystical rite and in that context it is pretty much useless.

[GoldenEagle]

I fully understand the above but my question does not refer to the married but to the unmarried. I am just stating that another way to look at the word celibate is as mentioned in Matt 19:11,12. Just because one may realize that he /she may in the right circumstance be tempted, they refrain from any sexual encounter and choose to remain celibate or in the OT term a eunuch knowing that if tempted God is just and will forgive their sin of temptation. And this refers to both homosexual and heterosexual.

-----------------------------------

 

Matt. 19:1-15

 

 

The context of the passage was first to the married (Verses 1-10) then to those who were unmarried (verses 11-12). As Gerioke pointed out celibate and eunich are not the same word nor do they have the same meaning. In context I believe the passage is saying some people find they are less distracted by a spouse and so remain single to serve God. As we know Scripture flows together. For a better understanding of Matthew 19:11-12 see 1 Cor. 7 as Paul says "For I wish that all men were even as I myself." (1 Cor. 7:7) - single and not married.

 

And also later Paul clarifies that celibacy simply means there is no need to care for another person. See 1 Cor. 7:32-35 below.

 

 1 Cor. 7:32-35

³² But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. ³³ But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. ³⁴ There isa difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. ³⁵ And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction.

 

What do you think of 1 Cor. 7?

 

Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin? Yes/No

 

Do you believe that thinking homosexual thoughts are a sin? Yes/No

 

God bless,

GE

[Gandalf]

 

Just curious - how does anyone interpret Matt, 19:11,12?

I am questioning this because of the word celibate - a word we use today instead of the word eunuch. 

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

There are people who remain unmarried and thus sexually pure because they can serve God better in that way.  That is not the same as those who take a vow of celibacy thinking that the act of celibacy will somehow make them closer to God. The latter are carnal and have their focus skewed on the wrong things.  Their focus is not on building the Kingdom, but using celbacy as some mystical rite and in that context it is pretty much useless.

-------------------------------------------------

 

History is littered with Celibates who made huge contributions to Christ's Church; I praise God for them. That some people have adopted Ceilbacy for less than 100% selfless reasons takes away nothing from those who have renounced the "worldly cares" of marriage and family life for the sake of Christ and His Church.

[enoob57]

 

 

Obvious is the word of the day for you! 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Its obvious you still are missing the point...this is not about smoking.  

 

 

 

enoob's reply

It is obvious that it is about reason and yours is flawed and smoking is one indicator you have given.

The other is the obvious denial that Christ said- so as a man thinks in his heart so is he! Whether he

commits the act or not he has done so in his heart already!

Love, Steven

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Just curious - how does anyone interpret Matt, 19:11,12?

I am questioning this because of the word celibate - a word we use today instead of the word eunuch. 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

There are people who remain unmarried and thus sexually pure because they can serve God better in that way.  That is not the same as those who take a vow of celibacy thinking that the act of celibacy will somehow make them closer to God. The latter are carnal and have their focus skewed on the wrong things.  Their focus is not on building the Kingdom, but using celbacy as some mystical rite and in that context it is pretty much useless.

-------------------------------------------------

 

History is littered with Celibates who made huge contributions to Christ's Church; I praise God for them. That some people have adopted Ceilbacy for less than 100% selfless reasons takes away nothing from those who have renounced the "worldly cares" of marriage and family life for the sake of Christ and His Church.

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

So what??   That is really an irrelevant  response in the light of how celibacy is being misused per the OP.  I have not  spoken against church leaders who were celibate.  Stop trying to refute what I have not said and try posting something meaninful, relevant and substantive.

[enoob57]

 

 

 

 

Obvious is the word of the day for you! 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Its obvious you still are missing the point...this is not about smoking.  

 

 

 

enoob's reply

It is obvious that it is about reason and yours is flawed and smoking is one indicator you have given.

The other is the obvious denial that Christ said- so as a man thinks in his heart so is he! Whether he

commits the act or not he has done so in his heart already!

Love, Steven

 

It is still pretty obvious that you are still missing the point.  Smoking has nothing to do with this.  But if you want to discuss smoking we can in another thread.  Then we can discuss you faulty premise that seems to label smoking a sin.  I don't know if you consider all smoking a sin, but seems you have a big issue with it.  So if you want to discuss that elsewhere we can.  What I am considering is what we call sinful, and if we base repentance on what one deems sinful and another doesn't especially then in some area we will find shades of gray.  So how about deal with what I was obviously talking about. 

 

 

 

enoob's reply:

I don't think you seem to get it! Your reasoning is flawed .... sin brings confusion and what you see and give heed to

God simply does not!  There are no shades of grey as though some wrong may be right... a lie is a lie and God has

sent us His Word to be able to distinguish this reality amidst a place filled with lies and deception. You seem to think

you have within yourself some contribution to this reality but in fact it is God's Word alone that can lead us out of the

deception we are in here! His Word Alone!!! As clearly taught in the Word

Ro 12:1-2

 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what I

s that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

NKJV

2 Ti 3:13-17

13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in

the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,  15 and that from

childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in

Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in

righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

NKJV

Love, Steven