The Purpose of the "Rapture"

[Floatingaxe]

Terminology (the bride) that is everywhere used of the Church is not then "metaphorically" used to mean something else.

That is not exegesis, that is eisegesis.

This is one time where the City of God is indeed a physical CITY.

Is that from unfulfilled prophecy?

Why? Do you see the New Jerusalem around here? Let me know where it is and I'll go and take a walk on them thar golden streets.

So prophecy is given in dark sayings (riddles).

Not always.

Add to that, the track record of God's people in interpreting prophecy before it is fulfilled is dismal, at best.

The belief of God's people that Christ would set up an earthly kingdom comes to mind.

Yet, Jesus will set up an earthly kingdom according to many scriptures. I believe God's word.

Therefore, private interpretation of the dark sayings (riddles) of prophecy cannot be certain.

That being the case, I do not base my understanding of Scripture in what cannot be certain.

Then you would know that the Lord will return and reign and rule for 1000 years on earth. 'Dark sayings' are also parables. Jesus spoke much in parables for the purpose of confounding those who do not believe and of enlightening those who do.

So do you have anything outside the dark sayings (riddles) of unfulfilled prophecy (whose meaning cannot be certain) to support that the City of God is indeed a physical CITY?

We are to discern the word of God by His Spirit. He doesn't utter anything dark or darkly to those who follow after Him, but I know one who does. I fear that you, like many, do not trust in the discernment that God can give you to understand the prophetic, and stoop to a tinge of mockery toward those who actually do.

[goldust59]

Again, we're way off track. What does SCRIPTURE say about the purpose of the rapture? It is to change the bodies of those believers who have not died to glorified bodies.

I agree about the purpose of the "rapture" you state here. IMO, the teachings of today on this topic do not reflect what God intended us to see. Hidden within this false concept of a rapture is a separation of the 'church' & Israel.

What do you see as false about:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command (Come forth!), and the voice of the archangel and the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise (from their graves) first. After that, we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

What about this Scripture stating the rapture is false?

1Co 15:52 is not about the rapture. It is about the transformation to our glorified bodies. That is not the rapture.

Hi Eleanor,

I see nothing false in the scripture you quoted. I consider all scripture to be true, I just don't think we yet see the full truths to be found there. But I also believe that understanding is constantly being opened as we study with the Holy Spirit's assistance. We just have to be open to what He says & not rely on our own views.

When do you see us being changed to our glorified bodies? Do you not connect that to the catching up? I have always seen these as speaking of same thing. Please explain what you see.

Hi, goldust,

It's really not about "what I see." It's about what Scripture specifically states.

"For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable" (1Co 15:52).

Scripture specifically states we will come out of our graves in glorified bodies.

That is the resurrection.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command (Come forth!), with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God,

and the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." (1Th 4:16-17)

Scripture specifically states that the rising (resurrection) occurs just before the catching up to meet the Lord in the air (rapture) occurs.

The full truths specifically stated in Scripture can be clearly seen here that the rapture immediately follows the resurrection in our glorified bodies.

It's not a matter of anyone's view, it's a matter of what is specifically stated in Scripture, and therefore can be clearly seen

Thanks Eleanor, We are seeing the same thing here. I just wasn't understanding that you were not lumping the two together as "the rapture" as so many of us do.

I do believe that sometimes there are layers of meaning in the scripture & not all things are just plainly stated.

Cool. They can't be the same because the dead in Christ will come out of their graves in their resurrection bodies, to be then raptured.

Well, the good news is no matter how many layers of meaning in Scripture, they will all agree with what is plainly stated.

So what is plainly stated is sure forever and, therefore, always governs.

Absolutely!

That's why I have a problem with the concept of us leaving earth in a "rapture". Especially when it is believed that the righteous are taken off earth while the rest of humanity suffers.

There is ONE scripture that LOOKS LIKE it states we leave earth and meet Him in the air & there are several that STATE PLAINLY or imply that we do not leave earth. So I think the ONE scripture is being misunderstood. So whatever the ONE scripture is saying, it has to agree with the rest of the scriptures.

Psalm 37 (all of it)

Psalm 37:24~Wait on the LORD, and keep His way, and He shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, you shall see it.

Psalm 37:22~For such as be blessed of Him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of Him shall be cut off.

Proverbs 2:21,22~For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Proverbs 10:30~ The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

I don't have all the answers and sure don't claim to, but when there is a scripture that doesn't seem to line up with the others, I have to accept that there is more to it than there appears to be.

[Floatingaxe]

Absolutely!

That's why I have a problem with the concept of us leaving earth in a "rapture". Especially when it is believed that the righteous are taken off earth while the rest of humanity suffers.

There is ONE scripture that LOOKS LIKE it states we leave earth and meet Him in the air & there are several that STATE PLAINLY or imply that we do not leave earth. So I think the ONE scripture is being misunderstood. So whatever the ONE scripture is saying, it has to agree with the rest of the scriptures.

Psalm 37 (all of it)

Psalm 37:24~Wait on the LORD, and keep His way, and He shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, you shall see it.

Psalm 37:22~For such as be blessed of Him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of Him shall be cut off.

Proverbs 2:21,22~For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Proverbs 10:30~ The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

I don't have all the answers and sure don't claim to, but when there is a scripture that doesn't seem to line up with the others, I have to accept that there is more to it than there appears to be.

When Jesus comes and sets foot on the Earth, He will establish His earthy reign. That is exactly when all those scriptures come to be fulfilled! The righteous will rule, and reign with Him. The wicked will be cut off and the righteous will dwell on the Earth. Every one of your examples of scripture fit right in with what we can expect.

[Floatingaxe]

I take it that some here deny the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ?

The Millennial Kingdom Reign of Jesus Christ

[Floatingaxe]

Suffice it to say I will be agreeing with the Word of God that prophecy is given in dark sayings (riddles)--(Nu 12:6-8),

So, you don't believe that prophecy can be understood by people who have the Holy Spirit living in them and is able to reveal to them all things?

and I will be taking into account the dismal track record of God's people in interpreting prophecy before it is fulfilled,

and I will not be basing my understanding of Scripture is private interpretation of prophecy which cannot be certain.

I see that even the denial of basic prophetic portions of scripture is the same as personal interpretation. Be careful of that broad brush.

[Floatingaxe]

Scripture reveals that there is a whole lot more time after the Rapture. There is seven years of Tribulation, and then there will be the 1000 years of the rule of Christ on earth, and then there will be a short but vicious battle between the forces of evil and Jesus Himself, after which Judgment Day comes---that will be the end of time as we know it, and that is when eternity really begins. It's all there in Revelation.

[Floatingaxe]

Why is the Holy Spirit giving people so many opposite meanings of the same Scriptures?

Holy Spirit doesn't do that. People have what the bible says is vile imaginations. Many people cannot discern whether the Holy Spirit is speaking or their own minds.

Don't confuse lack of certainty with denial.

In Christ and by His word, we can have certainty. Denying what is plainly all through scripture about the Kingdom of the Messiah is a very strange thing for a believer to do.

[Floatingaxe]

I take it that some here deny the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ?

The Millennial Kingdom Reign of Jesus Christ

What Scripture states regarding Messiah and His Kingdom.

Why do you constantly link to your own stuff? I am not impressed with it. The Millennial Kingdom is not allegorical, if that is what you are trying to say.

[Floatingaxe]

Scripture reveals that there is a whole lot more time after the Rapture. There is seven years of Tribulation, and then there will be the 1000 years of the rule of Christ on earth, and then there will be a short but vicious battle between the forces of evil and Jesus Himself, after which Judgment Day comes---that will be the end of time as we know it, and that is when eternity really begins. It's all there in Revelation.

That's from uncertain private interpretation of unfulfilled prophecy, given in riddles (Nu 12:6-8), rather than from what is certain.

Not so. It is learned by careful study of the word and revealed by Holy Spirit. God's word is sure and true.

[goldust59]

Absolutely!

That's why I have a problem with the concept of us leaving earth in a "rapture". Especially when it is believed that the righteous are taken off earth while the rest of humanity suffers.

There is ONE scripture that LOOKS LIKE it states we leave earth and meet Him in the air & there are several that STATE PLAINLY or imply that we do not leave earth. So I think the ONE scripture is being misunderstood. So whatever the ONE scripture is saying, it has to agree with the rest of the scriptures.

Psalm 37 (all of it)

Psalm 37:24~Wait on the LORD, and keep His way, and He shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, you shall see it.

Psalm 37:22~For such as be blessed of Him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of Him shall be cut off.

Proverbs 2:21,22~For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Proverbs 10:30~ The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

I don't have all the answers and sure don't claim to, but when there is a scripture that doesn't seem to line up with the others, I have to accept that there is more to it than there appears to be.

When Jesus comes and sets foot on the Earth, He will establish His earthy reign. That is exactly when all those scriptures come to be fulfilled! The righteous will rule, and reign with Him. The wicked will be cut off and the righteous will dwell on the Earth. Every one of your examples of scripture fit right in with what we can expect.

We certainly see things differently here.

Who do you think God is speaking to here & what 'evil day' does He mean?

Ephesians 6:13~ Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

or here:

Ezekiel 13:3-5~Thus saith the Lord God; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! O Israel, thy prophets are like foxes in the deserts. You have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.