The Big Bang Theory

[~candice~]

Alex, if you wish to be successful in these forums you are going to have to change your style. Sarcasm, and insults have rarely changed hearts or minds. Let Lord tells us to be humble, gracious, especially in our teaching.

[ByFaithAlone]

First off my friend, recognize that this thread is monstrously old and it might have been a better idea to have started a new one. Secondly, recognize that some of the people you are talking about support a Christian worldview and some, such as Justin don't even support the big bang. Lastly, I find it interesting that you take issue with the Big Bang, the best scientific evidence Christianity has for the position creation ex nihilo since the beginning of scientific inquiry.

At the time of the "bang" (about t=1e-36 to about 1e-32 or so seconds) all of the energy and mass for the universe already existed but it was condensed until the inflation (the "bang").

Funny 1: bang in reference to what exactly?

Funny 2: of course, before you claim inflation, you’d actually have to PROVE it. That and that alone would be SCIENTIFIC, don’t you think? And I’m not sure HOW you can prove it, since even core mainstream institutions like ESA admit that not only it’s not proven but it CANNOT be proven…

Bottom line: your FAITH in big bang seems boundless. Certainly worthy of a better cause. Like, I don’t know, God?

Regardless, thank you for PROVING yet again how much FAITH it takes for one to believe in the mainstream pseudoscience…

In regards to Funny 1: Big bang is a name it does not refer to a sound or anything like that. Bang refers to the idea of rapid expansion known as inflation.

In regards to Funny 2: Could you provide your quote and the article or scientific journal where you found it? Thanks. In regards to evidence for cosmological inflation I place the following humbly at your feet:

The WMAP mission of 2006 where a probe examined the cosmic microwave background radiation. This probe examines the radiation that is present in the universe to look into the earliest ages of the universe. NASA describes it in simple terms as taking baby pictures of the universe. Here is a brief description of the program as given by NASA.

"The WMAP science team has determined, to a high degree of accuracy and precision, not only the age of the universe, but also the density of atoms; the density of all other non-atomic matter; the epoch when the first stars started to shine; the "lumpiness" of the universe, and how that "lumpiness" depends on scale size. In short, when used alone (with no other measurements), WMAP observations have improved knowledge of these six numbers by a total factor of 68,000, thereby converting cosmology from a field of wild speculation to a precision science.

WMAP's "baby picture of the universe" maps the afterglow of the hot, young universe at a time when it was only 375,000 years old, when it was a tiny fraction of its current age of 13.77 billion years. The patterns in this baby picture were used to limit what could have possibly happened earlier, and what happened in the billions of year since that early time. The (mis-named) "big bang" framework of cosmology, which posits that the young universe was hot and dense, and has been expanding and cooling ever since, is now solidly supported, according to WMAP.

WMAP observations also support an add-on to the big bang framework to account for the earliest moments of the universe. Called "inflation," the theory says that the universe underwent a dramatic early period of expansion, growing by more than a trillion trillion-fold in less than a trillionth of a trillionth of a second. Tiny fluctuations were generated during this expansion that eventually grew to form galaxies.

Remarkably, WMAP's precision measurement of the properties of the fluctuations has confirmed specific predictions of the simplest version of inflation: the fluctuations follow a bell curve with the same properties across the sky, and there are equal numbers of hot and cold spots on the map. WMAP also confirms the predictions that the amplitude of the variations in the density of the universe on big scales should be slightly larger than smaller scales, and that the universe should obey the rules of Euclidean geometry so the sum of the interior angles of a triangle add to 180 degrees."

I could direct you to more scientific papers on the subject if you so desire.

In regards to Bottom Line: I am a Christian so I do believe in God and I could provide good scientific and philosophical reasons to believe in God while the Big Bang.

Based on work by Borde et al in 2003, we know it is mathmatically illogical

MathEmatically illogical? Really? Buddy, you could use maths to prove as well disprove ANYTHING.

Really? You have a problem with Borde et al which is one of the largest proofs given to the scientific and Christian idea of creation ex nihilo? You do realize I support a Christian position, don't you?

As to using mathematics to disprove anything, I would like you to prove mathematically that 2+2 =/= 4. If you could do that, it would be great. Until then, stop making foolish and grandiose claims. Thanks.

to say that an inflationary universe or multiverse (such as our universe) is eternal.

So our universe is multiverse? Really? Sure you still have to PROVE that, prior to actually claiming it, but that doesn’t seem to deter you from your bold trips into imagination, does it?

I do not believe that are universe is a multiverse. Please read the full statements I make or consult me before assuming positions I do not hold. I simply stated that any inflationary universe (such as ours - which I believe exists by the way) or inflationary multiverse (which I personally see no evidence for and perhaps some evidence against) must have a distinct space time beginning point by Borde et al.

Lastly, sarcasm does not make your comments or arguments any better especially when they are so flawed. Please bring reason to the table, not jibes. Thanks for your time.

[~candice~]

Yes BFA, I am surprised at the opposition to the big bang knowing the role it plays in pivotal natural theology arguments like the KCA. It has an origin and requires a Creator. It isn't in opposition with the bible because Genesis doesn't provide the methodology for the creation of the universe, it just has the narration of it. Sometimes I think people fight wars against science that aren't there.

[~candice~]

I can elaborate further.

In verse 1, it says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". I take it to mean that He created the universe at this point. But this is a statement of fact, not a description of how He created, just that it was Him. How do you know God didn't create the universe via the big bang?

Since the bible is silent on how He created it, I see no reason to reject the BB. The bible offers no competing theory, it doesn't undermine any biblical teachings. It seems to be well supported science, it appeals to a beginning and hence a cause for the universe.

Where does the bible say "no big bangs or inflations"? I really think this is an unnecessary opposition for a Christian to take. Accepting the BB doesn't imply evolution, is that your concern?

[Guest]

....Lets try this again, because I am genuinely curious, and hopefully we can cut out any personal attacks along the way in accordance with the rules of Worthy..... .you mean by the universe not being gravitational....

Cosmos Glue

What We See In Nature Creation

Fundamental Forces

By Order Of Strength

The Strong Force, The Electromagnetic Force, The Weak Force And The The Weakest Force Off Them All, Gravity http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/funfor.html

And What We See In God's Letters

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17

To Earth

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:11

Talk About Great Force~!

[Paladin39]

I was speaking with a troll in the chatroom tonight, and I didn't get a good opportunity to go over evolution with him, so I thought I would put my thoughts down here.

People that believe in evolution say we came from pond scum. But, how can that be where life originated? Has pond scum always existed, or do we need to break it down to smaller components, like molecules, or atoms, or protons, or neutrons, or electrons? How about smaller than that? They all have mass, so how did the mass come into being?

Which brings me to the big bang theory. The theory is that, one day a singularity happened, the big bang occurred and that is how it all began. But, to make a massive explosion like that, you would require a whole lot of energy. But, as we all know, in theory, energy equals mass times the speed of light squared. So, in order to have the energy required to initiate the big bang, would need a whole lot of mass moving at the speed of light. Where did the mass come from? How did it start moving?

How can the amount of mass required to create the universe exist before the universe? Something had to create the mass, something had to move it to the speed of light, and theoretically, only light can travel at the speed of light. So, let's say that the entire mass of the universe started out in particles smaller than atoms, and somehow it all gravitated towards the center of the universe at the speed of light, collided together like in an infinitely sized super collider and the big bang happened. That mass had to come from somewhere, we can break it down to the 10^-100000000000000. . . .but mass cannot create mass. An object, no matter how small, at rest must remain at rest until an outside force puts it in motion.

Motion is energy, even the smallest particle had to start at rest. So, what energy, absent mass travelling at the speed of light squared, initiated the creation of the Universe?

You cannot have pond scum without energy and you cannot have energy without mass. You cannot have motion without an outside force first initiating it.

Sounds like the big bang is a big bust. . .

If the big bang did happen, Who lite the fuse on this big firecraker, call the Big Bang?

II have no idea that can be supported by actual evidence. Neither do you.

[Guest]

II have no idea that can be supported by actual evidence. Neither do you.

Taste

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. Psalms 34:8

And Know

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

[bestrfcplayer]

The Big Bang is the best theory that scientists have came up with thus far to prove the origins of the universe. You can believe in the Big Bang and still believe in God. And yes, none of us were there when the universe was created. But, the Big Bang is as valid as Gen 1:1, as none of us currently living or dead have seen the origin of the universe.

[Paladin39]

II have no idea that can be supported by actual evidence. Neither do you.

Taste

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. Psalms 34:8

And Know

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

As I said, neither do you. As you have just demonstrated.

[Guest]

The Big Bang is the best theory that scientists have came up with thus far to prove the origins of the universe. You can believe in the Big Bang and still believe in God. And yes, none of us were there when the universe was created. But, the Big Bang is as valid as Gen 1:1, as none of us currently living or dead have seen the origin of the universe.

Beloved, In Your Understanding In What Way Could The Big Bang

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5

Possibly Validate God's Account Of Day Four

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:14-19

Or The First Day Of Forever

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:3-5

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Science (Fiction) Mocks God's Word

Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:20-21

And Laughs At LORD Jesus

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22

You Know

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe