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Posted

I am not taking anything over the word of God - only your interpretation of it. Your interpretation does not fit with reality.

And why is it so odious to you to believe that God can speak new words to you? Are the words written in Scripture the only words God ever has spoken or can speak to man? How can you not see this is putting a limit on God's voice?

That's why I want to hear someone else's interpretation that isn't flawed. I haven't heard one yet. So far the only interpretation that I have found to fit with the Bible is this one. I didn't always to have doubts in modern miracles or prophecy. In fact I used to go with friends and visit churches in which the belief in miracles was held, and sometimes were "performed." Then someone helped me realize what 1 Corinthians 13 actually says. I didn't believe him at first. In fact, I closed my mind to his evaluations of the Scriptures because, after all, I had seen miracles had I not? But as I opened my mind, I realized that what he said coincided with what the Bible taught, and yet I was still held back by my experience of what I had considered miracles. My friend (the guy who taught me the truth) came with me to some of these churches. He went to the "healers" and asked them to make him walk again. They couldn't. They claimed it was because of his lack of faith. Of course, lack of faith in the receiver of the miracle is irrelevant, considering all the dead people Christ raised. They obviously didn't have faith in God, because they were dead. A lifeless corpse cannot have faith. And so he brought his child, who was born deaf, and asked that the child be healed. None of the healers were able to, even though a couple tried. He asked for some miraculous sign of any kind, so that he could believe. They weren't able to do anything more significant than claim to speak in tongues, which anyone can do. No fire from heaven. No drinking poison and not being harmed. No casting out of demons. Nothing. So I started to have my doubts. I began to realize that people could fool themselves, like I had.

My friend brought me to some of the healing sessions that have in religious conferences, where so-called healers would take healing requests on stage. Despite the fact all the maladies that the healed people had were invisible, we found out that several of the same people were following the healers and claiming each and every time to have to same invisible disease that they had been healed of in the last session. That's what really put me off to modern miracles. Since then I have asked people to show me miracles. After all, miracles were performed so that men might believe, correct? So they cannot claim that my disbelief affects their ability to do miracles. But no one ever showed me anything supernatural. All I've ever seen is claims to have healed invisible diseases or tumors, or claims to be speaking with understanding in a language they have never learned.

So it's not that I've closed my mind to the possibility. In fact I was raised in a church that had faith in miracles. I used to believe in them. But since I've never seen a real miracle, believing or unbelieving, so I cannot believe, considering that I understand the Bible to teach differently.

My mind is still wide open. I still ask people to show me miracles. That isn't an unreasonable request. I'm also open to different interpretations of the passage in 1 Corinthians 13. However, I've never heard one that wasn't disappointingly easy to explain away accurately. I still want to hear one, though.


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Posted

So it's not that I've closed my mind to the possibility. In fact I was raised in a church that had faith in miracles. I used to believe in them. But since I've never seen a real miracle, believing or unbelieving, so I cannot believe, considering that I understand the Bible to teach differently.

My mind is still wide open. I still ask people to show me miracles. That isn't an unreasonable request. I'm also open to different interpretations of the passage in 1 Corinthians 13. However, I've never heard one that wasn't disappointingly easy to explain away accurately. I still want to hear one, though.

When my first child was born, she was born with a disease called cytomegalavirus. I was told IF she survived past the first few days I might as well look into a nursing facility for her, her symptoms were so severe they said she would be permenantly brain damaged to the point of total vegetable, 23 years later she's a graduate from the Florida School of the Deaf and Blind, with a 4.0 GPA.

My first husband put his arm through a table saw, severing all major arteries and tendons. He had 6 hours of reconstructive surgery. Doctors told him he would never work carpenter again and never have use of his arm again. Within 2 weeks his nerves were regenerating, which the doctors said were medically impossible, a month later he was back to swinging a hammer, and 4 months later he had FULL use of his arm again.

When I got pregnant for my last child, he was baby #8, I was older and very high risk, I had to go to Yale for test on several occasions for tests, my doctor advised me to abort because of the degree of risk I told absolutely not God will see my child through. I had a 1 in 3 chance of having a severly deformed and mentally retarded child. Colton today is too years old and perfectly healthy and normal, although too smart for his own good, lol.

Thats just in m y immediate family, all medically documented, my God is a miracle working God!

blessings stacey c


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Posted

I am not taking anything over the word of God - only your interpretation of it. Your interpretation does not fit with reality.

And why is it so odious to you to believe that God can speak new words to you? Are the words written in Scripture the only words God ever has spoken or can speak to man? How can you not see this is putting a limit on God's voice?

That's why I want to hear someone else's interpretation that isn't flawed. I haven't heard one yet. So far the only interpretation that I have found to fit with the Bible is this one. I didn't always to have doubts in modern miracles or prophecy. In fact I used to go with friends and visit churches in which the belief in miracles was held, and sometimes were "performed." Then someone helped me realize what 1 Corinthians 13 actually says. I didn't believe him at first. In fact, I closed my mind to his evaluations of the Scriptures because, after all, I had seen miracles had I not? But as I opened my mind, I realized that what he said coincided with what the Bible taught, and yet I was still held back by my experience of what I had considered miracles. My friend (the guy who taught me the truth) came with me to some of these churches. He went to the "healers" and asked them to make him walk again. They couldn't. They claimed it was because of his lack of faith. Of course, lack of faith in the receiver of the miracle is irrelevant, considering all the dead people Christ raised. They obviously didn't have faith in God, because they were dead. A lifeless corpse cannot have faith. And so he brought his child, who was born deaf, and asked that the child be healed. None of the healers were able to, even though a couple tried. He asked for some miraculous sign of any kind, so that he could believe. They weren't able to do anything more significant than claim to speak in tongues, which anyone can do. No fire from heaven. No drinking poison and not being harmed. No casting out of demons. Nothing. So I started to have my doubts. I began to realize that people could fool themselves, like I had.

My friend brought me to some of the healing sessions that have in religious conferences, where so-called healers would take healing requests on stage. Despite the fact all the maladies that the healed people had were invisible, we found out that several of the same people were following the healers and claiming each and every time to have to same invisible disease that they had been healed of in the last session. That's what really put me off to modern miracles. Since then I have asked people to show me miracles. After all, miracles were performed so that men might believe, correct? So they cannot claim that my disbelief affects their ability to do miracles. But no one ever showed me anything supernatural. All I've ever seen is claims to have healed invisible diseases or tumors, or claims to be speaking with understanding in a language they have never learned.

So it's not that I've closed my mind to the possibility. In fact I was raised in a church that had faith in miracles. I used to believe in them. But since I've never seen a real miracle, believing or unbelieving, so I cannot believe, considering that I understand the Bible to teach differently.

My mind is still wide open. I still ask people to show me miracles. That isn't an unreasonable request. I'm also open to different interpretations of the passage in 1 Corinthians 13. However, I've never heard one that wasn't disappointingly easy to explain away accurately. I still want to hear one, though.

Two years ago I resubmitted myself to God and this time I believe I received the Holy Spirit. I was reading the Gospels I didn’t believe in miracles either. I started listening to a teacher who has testimonies of people being healed and his son actually raised from the dead. I prayed and prayed about this to the Lord asking, if these things were true. Three months later I heard an audible voice telling me to call my mom and she was having a stroke that very minute. While in Houston at the hospital I got a call from a brother in law and he was healed from a torn muscle in his shoulder. He didn’t have medical insurance and couldn’t afford surgery. I believe God answered my prayers!

I’m sorry you haven’t seen any miracles which may be the reason for your unbelief. Your unbelief has blinded you to the works of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is alive and working thru Christians today and will continue till we are face to face with God. Not everyone gets healed and who knows how satan is battling us in the spiritual realm.

My mind is still wide open. I still ask people to show me miracles.

You should be asking God to show you His power. The question is will you be able to recognize it thru unbelief. Because of your unbelief you are calling the Christians here liars who have testified of the wondrous powers of God working in peoples’ lives.

I pray that God shows you His power that works in you is alive in Jesus name.

Out


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Posted

The problem is, none of those things are miraculous.

Every day, doctors give diagnoses to people saying they have no chance, and then those people come through, and always with a scientific explanation. Just because the doctor wasn't knowledgeable enough to realize that it was medically possible for your daughter to succeed in life, despite being deaf and blind, doesn't mean it was a miracle. It's very naturally possible for nerve and muscle cells to regenerate after being severed. That's not a miracle. It's humanly possible.

Hearing voices in your head is not a miracle. Coincidences like calling your mother when she had a stroke (it's weird that she answered the phone in the first place when she was having a stroke, or else it wasn't a very bad stroke) are not miracles. Defying the odds is not miraculous, it's naturally possible.

Like I said, I USED to believe in miracles. So unbelief did not keep me from seeing miracles. When my friend introduced to me the idea that miracles might not be possible, I still believed in miracles, but he encouraged me to ask to see signs from God, and no one was able to see signs.

If I'm unbelieving, then God won't show me miracles. So why ask? I might as well ask someone believing, should I not? That's not unreasonable. So I continue to do so. I always keep my mind open to the possibility that the person I ask to perform a miracle might actually do so. I had my mind changed once, it can change again. It just takes evidence. Faith in God is not blind faith. We have evidence for our faith. God never expected us to believe in Him blindly and for no reason. Neither should I believe in miracles unless I have evidence.


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Posted

So many people come in here stating that they use to believe this or that, but now don't. If that is your case, then so be it. You have lost what you once had. Yet, you don't just take it as it is, you feel you need to convince others that what you believe is the truth and everything else is not.

Who are you to say if God still performs miracles or not? If your faith does not allow you to believe, then keep it to yourself and stop telling people that what they believe is wrong. Were you there when all these things happened to other people? Who are you to tell others that Christ does not speak to them today? When Jesus answered my question verbally and visually, by your diagnosis, that would mean I suffer from schizophrenia and hallucination. Please, enlighten us all as to how you know all that God is and does?

You should keep your disbelief to yourself and allow those who have faith to believe. If they are wrong, His Holy Spirit will let them know, not you.


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Posted

:laugh: Sorry but I must laugh when individuals think they need to demand that The Creator of heaven and earth, must prove Himself for them to believe in His miraculous power. God moves miraculously in those who love Him and trust Him, not because it is demanded.

BELIEVING ISNT SEEING. BEILIVING IS FAITH WITH OUT SEEING!


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Posted

I am not taking anything over the word of God - only your interpretation of it. Your interpretation does not fit with reality.

And why is it so odious to you to believe that God can speak new words to you? Are the words written in Scripture the only words God ever has spoken or can speak to man? How can you not see this is putting a limit on God's voice?

That's why I want to hear someone else's interpretation that isn't flawed. I haven't heard one yet.

My mind is still wide open.

So again I ask, everyone is wrong on this site except you? Strange, that......

And as for having a mind that is wide open? Close one side of it, something might stick instead of flying right through. :laugh:


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Posted

I am not taking anything over the word of God - only your interpretation of it. Your interpretation does not fit with reality.

And why is it so odious to you to believe that God can speak new words to you? Are the words written in Scripture the only words God ever has spoken or can speak to man? How can you not see this is putting a limit on God's voice?

That's why I want to hear someone else's interpretation that isn't flawed. I haven't heard one yet.

My mind is still wide open.

So again I ask, everyone is wrong on this site except you? Strange, that......

And as for having a mind that is wide open? Close one side of it, something might stick instead of flying right through. :laugh:

I'm sorry, but even I am moved to: drunk-irish-048.gif


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Posted

The problem is, none of those things are miraculous.

Every day, doctors give diagnoses to people saying they have no chance, and then those people come through, and always with a scientific explanation. Just because the doctor wasn't knowledgeable enough to realize that it was medically possible for your daughter to succeed in life, despite being deaf and blind, doesn't mean it was a miracle. It's very naturally possible for nerve and muscle cells to regenerate after being severed. That's not a miracle. It's humanly possible.

Hearing voices in your head is not a miracle. Coincidences like calling your mother when she had a stroke (it's weird that she answered the phone in the first place when she was having a stroke, or else it wasn't a very bad stroke) are not miracles. Defying the odds is not miraculous, it's naturally possible.

Like I said, I USED to believe in miracles. So unbelief did not keep me from seeing miracles. When my friend introduced to me the idea that miracles might not be possible, I still believed in miracles, but he encouraged me to ask to see signs from God, and no one was able to see signs.

If I'm unbelieving, then God won't show me miracles. So why ask? I might as well ask someone believing, should I not? That's not unreasonable. So I continue to do so. I always keep my mind open to the possibility that the person I ask to perform a miracle might actually do so. I had my mind changed once, it can change again. It just takes evidence. Faith in God is not blind faith. We have evidence for our faith. God never expected us to believe in Him blindly and for no reason. Neither should I believe in miracles unless I have evidence.

Have you ever looked into Heidi Baker, of Iris ministries? She will go into villages who have never heard of Jesus, call up the deaf and the blind and pray for them, they get healed and the whole village comes to God.

As far as miracles, no one can do miracles except God and He does them through His children. We can be blessed to be a vessel for Him to flow through but can no nothing of ourselves. Even if you have never seen a miracle, or discredit those you've seen by unbelief, you still have no right to discredit what others have seen and experienced. You are basing your theology on your experience as everyone else. Investigate, and seek the Lord. If you want to know if miracles really exist ask Him seek Him out for the answer.

One thing I find really sad with American culture is that we are one of the only countries that trys to explain away the supernatural with the natural. That is one reason why other countries experience miracles on a larger scale, they explain everything natural with the supernatural and when they come to the Lord, they expect Him to move.


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Posted
Have you ever looked into Heidi Baker, of Iris ministries? She will go into villages who have never heard of Jesus, call up the deaf and the blind and pray for them, they get healed and the whole village comes to God.

As far as miracles, no one can do miracles except God and He does them through His children. We can be blessed to be a vessel for Him to flow through but can no nothing of ourselves. Even if you have never seen a miracle, or discredit those you've seen by unbelief, you still have no right to discredit what others have seen and experienced. You are basing your theology on your experience as everyone else. Investigate, and seek the Lord. If you want to know if miracles really exist ask Him seek Him out for the answer.

One thing I find really sad with American culture is that we are one of the only countries that trys to explain away the supernatural with the natural. That is one reason why other countries experience miracles on a larger scale, they explain everything natural with the supernatural and when they come to the Lord, they expect Him to move.

Exactly! I want someone like her to show me God's miracles. No one has yet, though.

Sorry but I must laugh when individuals think they need to demand that The Creator of heaven and earth, must prove Himself for them to believe in His miraculous power. God moves miraculously in those who love Him and trust Him, not because it is demanded.

BELIEVING ISNT SEEING. BEILIVING IS FAITH WITH OUT SEEING!

Aww, you're cute Stacy. I think you missed the part in the Bible where miracles were done for the purpose of making people believe. Nice try though. ;) When the masses asked Jesus to do signs and wonders, I guess He said "No, you have to believe me on my words alone!"

I believe in God with my whole heart. I'm not condemned for not believing in man's so-called miracles, dearest.

So again I ask, everyone is wrong on this site except you? Strange, that......

And as for having a mind that is wide open? Close one side of it, something might stick instead of flying right through.

The MOST hilarious thing about it, though, is that as much as you say "No, no, no, WE'RE right, because there are more of us," you still haven't provided a sound Scriptural position. I'm not saying you're all wrong, I'm just saying you've failed. You've failed to make a case from the Bible. Correct me if I'm wrong! Please do! By saying I think I'm right, you're doing nothing but laughing at me for having presented a sound case that you have yet to respond to sufficiently. So keep laughing, it doesn't bother me. It makes me a little disappointed in the Bible readers of today. Kind of pathetic, but it's not like I'M the one putting forth all the bogus interpretations. If my interpretation is so wrong, it should be obvious to point out such from the Scriptures.

Also, don't make the mistake of thinking I'm the only Christian in the world who believes in miracles. Haha, nooo. Not by a long shot.

Will anyone make a case from the Bible? I'm tired of man's "wisdom."

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