US family expels their adopted child to Russia

[nebula]

His girl - you should know me better than that.

Do you have any idea how emotionally aggravated I am feeling?

All I'm saying is that I can't sit in judgment on the mother and grandmother for feeling scared and helpless, ill-prepared, and not having a clue what to do.

[Believer1997]

Adopting a child is not something to be taken lightly - and once you adopt the child is YOURS.... you have to find the same tools to deal with his/her problems that you would use if the child were biological - there is no difference. I don't know that people are throwing stones at the mother and grandmother - but it was awful to let a little kid travel alone under these conditions. Scared, helpless, ill-prepared and not having a clue of what to do... just doesn't cut it - you have to work problems out.

[south]

I just read this news earlier. I agree that maybe the mother had reason to return the child if serious psychological issues were not disclosed to her. I have a friend who adopted a 5-year old girl from her hubby's side of the family. But she said they had to give her back because she already had some really nasty behaviors. She would shout and have tantrums and would not listen. The last straw was when she was rude to my friend's mom. That's when they decided to give her back. But they still support her by paying for her education.

As to this news about the Russian boy, what I found really mean is to return the kid like some merchandise. They just sent him off by himself. I think that's just cruel. The least they could have done is to accompany him to Russia and discuss the issues with the orpahanage, and turn him over properly.

Blessings...South

South - the text in red - I see this on a daily basis at my work (school) and for the most part it is kids who are from normal homes who would be deemed mentally normal -

I think that these kids are lacking support and the mark is being missed - someone needs to step up to the plate.

I see foster kids at my school being shifted to one home after another because of behaviour the new parent doesn't want to deal with - all before the age of 7 in some instances - and yet the money is granted to foster parents and all the support in the community is available to them yet they (parent) don't want to put in the hard yards sometimes.....

It's the kid with needs who misses out in the end.

I see it time and time again...

I am not saying that such behaviors are unusual for a 5 year old. But what I am saying is, some people can put up with it and some can't. Some people can step up to the plate and some can't. Now, who am I to say that those who step are better than those who don't? People's circumstances are different.

The kid was with my friend for a few weeks and she couldn't put up with it. She has adopted an abandoned baby (a newborn) after that, and she is really so in love with this baby. Now, if this baby grows up to be like the 5 year old girl, shouting and having tantrums, then it would be a completely different case.

As for this lady who returned the boy, as Wyguy has said, we don't know her side of the story. I am not about to make judgements about her because I don't have any idea what her circumstances were.

Now what would I have done if I were in her shoes? Honestly, I don't know.

Blessings...South

[ayin jade]

Nine years ago, my husband and I were considering a foreign adoption. At the time, we were told that adoptions from the Russian orphanage system would likely have RAD, Reactive Attachment Disorder. Severe mental and emotional problems. We opted not to get a child due to many circumstances, including 9/11 which then took place. When you consider foreign adoption, you are not unaware that the child is likely to have issues. We were warned over and over again about it from many agencies. These parents were not unaware of what they were getting. Perhaps they had a fantasy of what their child would be like and couldnt see past that to what the reality was until after the child was home.

[nebula]

I just talked with my brother about this. He was one of the youth leaders who had to deal with the boy I mentioned, and he knew the adoptive father on a personal level.

My brother was saying, "I couldn't imagine a single mother having to handle someone like [the boy I mentioned]!"

Can you imagine a boy who threatens to kill you and your family in your sleep, and when you tell Social Services about this they respond, "Well, as long as you are not harming him, there's nothing we can do about it."?

Can you imagine draining your finances dry taking the boy to therapy until you have to beg money from the state because you have no more?

Can you imagine people telling you that the child's behavior is your fault because you were a bad parent?

These are some of the things this family had to go through.

My brother reminded me of when we drove home from that youth retreat I mentioned. I had forgotten this, but at one moment this boy completely out of the blue punched the guy next to him and screamed some things. When confronted, his response was that he didn't like the way the guy next to him was breathing. My brother had had to pull the van over to the side of the road and drag the boy out of the van, and was in my opinion at the time very rough with him. I realize now my brother had to be that way with him. But at the time I thought differently - you know, you got to be patient "loving" and all that. I realize now I was wrong.

When I had said before how he would go "crazy", I don't mean a temper tantrum. I mean crazy like you'd swear a demon was attacking him.

Oh, my brother had to correct some of my original story. When I said he was from Russia, he's actually from Estonia. And when I said his gifts would be stolen, actually they would be stolen or broken. But really, this aspect of what he went through was minor compared to what else he went through, things my brother says he couldn't repeat, they were that bad.

In fairness, he mentioned that the way this mother handled it was not the best way to handle it. But then in trying to consider what would have been best? If she was lucky, she could convince social services to allow him a psych evaluation where they'd determine he needed to be institutionalized.

Can you imagine being in that position?

Really, guys, I can so appreciate how your heart goes out to this child and how you feel for what this mother did to him.

But have any of you ever been face to face with a clinically psychotic person? Have you seen the look on his face? Have you tried to converse with him? Reason with him? Try to give him a hug and watch him despise you for it?

The best parenting in the world can't change the person. It's like trying to deal with a brain-damaged person. (That's what my brother said - and he's been through counseling with this boy, so he would know.) The only thing that could heal him is a miracle from the Lord, really.

And that whole thing about establishing authority and boot camp thing from the get-go does not work. It didn't work with this boy I mentioned - and believe me he was given more establishment of authority and boot camp than you can imagine.

There were a couple more things I wanted to mention, but I can't remember.

But anyway, I am writing this right now as calmly as I can. And I think I better not come back to this thread after this, even to read responses, because this conversation has brought out a lot of emotional turmoil in me. I mean, I am sitting here crying and thinking, "You guys have no idea what it is like. You have no idea."

Maybe I felt traumatized, too, by this boy at that youth retreat. (Really, I wish I could convey everything that happened; that punching incident was merely one of many things.) Maybe I feel heartbroken at the knowledge that some people just are unfixable. I had interaction with him many years later - about 3 years ago now? - where in some ways he's more mature, but in other ways he's even scarier, for he doesn't express his psychosis dramatically with screams and punches and fits of rage, but rather he stews with it internally . . . and who knows what is waiting to unleash from that? He's now living in an assisted living apartment for the mentally disabled, in case you were wondering.

In any event, all I want is for some compassion given to this single woman who was handed a load far greater than she had a clue how to bear.

If you only knew what interacting with a clinically psychotic child was like, if only you could spend some time with such.

[nebula]

Nine years ago, my husband and I were considering a foreign adoption. At the time, we were told that adoptions from the Russian orphanage system would likely have RAD, Reactive Attachment Disorder. Severe mental and emotional problems. We opted not to get a child due to many circumstances, including 9/11 which then took place. When you consider foreign adoption, you are not unaware that the child is likely to have issues. We were warned over and over again about it from many agencies. These parents were not unaware of what they were getting. Perhaps they had a fantasy of what their child would be like and couldnt see past that to what the reality was until after the child was home.

The family I speak of didn't have this warning given to them. You were lucky.

[Guest HIS girl]

His girl - you should know me better than that.

Do you have any idea how emotionally aggravated I am feeling?

All I'm saying is that I can't sit in judgment on the mother and grandmother for feeling scared and helpless, ill-prepared, and not having a clue what to do.

Ok, what i am trying to get through here is this child has the same issues as many kids I see on a daily basis at school...

This is not a unique situation and chidlren are not a disposable commodity although in Western society it is looking as such.

I have been in classes where kids threaten teachers of violence EG: "Watch out when you're asleep, I will kill you" ...a female student told a teacher of a class I was in - 15 yearold girl......

There are more kids with seemingly issues now than not - this is the world we live in and the reality.....

Adults need to step up to the plate....and if you are going to take on the role of an adoptive parent, it should not be any different to being a natural parent - the rules are the same.

[Guest HIS girl]

Adults need to step up to the plate....and if you are going to take on the role of an adoptive parent, it should not be any different to being a natural parent - the rules are the same.

I agree. I am sympathetic to the problems the adoptive parents were facing, but once you make the decision to adopt, these kids become your responsibility. Nobody forced anyone to do it. We are not talking about something you bought in the store that was defective. This is a human being. What they should have done is dealt with things in the same manner any parent would if it was their own child. If the child wasn't adopted, what would they have done? If we are talking about acting up, there are parenting classes. If we are talking about scary behavior they don't have the ability to handle, there are juvenile detention centers. The point is, this child became their child and they can't look at it any other way, or at least, they shouldn't.

That's it in a nutshell!

[forrestkc]

I agree. I am sympathetic to the problems the adoptive parents were facing, but once you make the decision to adopt, these kids become your responsibility. Nobody forced anyone to do it. We are not talking about something you bought in the store that was defective. This is a human being. What they should have done is dealt with things in the same manner any parent would if it was their own child. If the child wasn't adopted, what would they have done? If we are talking about acting up, there are parenting classes. If we are talking about scary behavior they don't have the ability to handle, there are juvenile detention centers. The point is, this child became their child and they can't look at it any other way, or at least, they shouldn't.

Exactly. I could not agree more.

You can't rationalize what this woman and her mother did. It was unconscionable, immoral, and probably criminal. Anyone that can't see that has no business having kids themselves.

[nebula]

I knew I should have stayed away from this thread, but I forgot to mention something.

Not that it matters apparently.

But whenever anyone tried to discipline this boy I mentioned, he would stare at your face with a smile, sometimes with a laugh.

He was so giddy at himself for punching a guy to get him to stop breathing in a way that annoyed him. He won, and that's all he cared, and he didn't care what punishment you dished at him. He still got what he wanted.

How do you discipline someone who can dish out more than you can, and can take more than you can?

And how do you bond with a child who refuses to or can't emotionally attach back to you? Try parenting a child who regards you with indifference, who won't receive you love, but stores your discipline as enmity.

I can't believe you guys think this is normal or that "the right" love and discipline would change the child's behavior.