Shooting at Fort Hood

[Rick-Parker]

Unfortunately, every Muslim (not every Arab) is a potential sleeper.

[MorningGlory]

Unfortunately, every Muslim (not every Arab) is a potential sleeper.

This is true; if they are devout, they are radical. And, no, not all Arabs are muslim.

[nebula]

Unless/ until evidence comes out that points to the jihad movement, I'll keep it as that.

Last night, the news did link him to the 9/11 terrorist, well, kind of. He was going to the same mosque, sitting under the same IMAM as three of the terrorist, at the time of 9/11 and was in prayer at the Mosque when it all went down. They are now trying to see if he knew them personally. Maybe he is part of the same radical group, maybe he isn't, but he did sit, and still sits, under the radical IMAM in Texas.

OK - well, see how this how this goes. Help me stay informed on what updates come out, OK?

[nebula]

Muslim jihadists in sleeper cells don't go around advertising who or where they are in America. Radical islamists blend in with mainstream Americans and have become westernized for all appearances. Many are well educated in American universities and are disguised as regular every day peaceful human beings to slip under the radar.

And that's the one thing different about this guy - he was practically announcing himself beforehand!

[Axxman]

Lots to respond to...I'll try to condense as much as possible.

On the one hand I can appreciate what you are saying, but your posts seem to indicate denial that there are Muslims who are plotting attacks against us, waiting for the right timing or whatever.

Until you acknowledge that there is a genuine threat for us to be concerned about, and propose a solution to the very real threat (instead of trying to convince us that there isn't one), no one is going to give you an ear in this.

I'm serious.

Of course there are extremist muslims that wish to do us harm. Denying that fact would be as ludicrous as denying that most muslims are not extremists. Is there a threat from extremists muslims? Sure, but its not like the biggest threat in the book. I work in a world of threats...I guarantee you that looking for muslims is way down on my list.

What is the solution? I know what it is not...its not treating innocent people like they are guilty. Its not monitoring, profiling, or kicking them out of the country or any other number of civil rights violations that have been mentioned. Whatever we do needs to be done right and it needs to be focused on people that are actually doing something wrong.

I said nothing about a threat other than what I mentioned above.

A "sleeper" could very well be registered at my college. Do you deny this?

Nope, I don't deny it... there could be a sleeper at your college. Could be a serial killer too...do you profile every single, white, male as a possible murderer? Or do you save the profiling for guys and gals who wear muslim 'garb' and have arabic names? Could be a rapist, a pedophile, a gangbanger, or just a guy who is tired of being lonely and picked on. Do you deny this? How do you manage to profile all these people in your classes? Or...is it just the muslims that need profiled. (And yes, I know you didn't say that...but your comments beg the question.)

In the grand scheme of things, Islam is a threat.

In the "grand" scheme of things all false religions are a threat. I think mormonism is a far greater threat to America and our way of life than Islam...in the "grand" scheme of things. However, Islam is more likely to spawn violence at this point in time...but things change over time.

Jihad is a radical branch, true. But Muslims have just as much a desire to convert the world to Islam as Christians desire to bring the world to Jesus. The difference is the world is submitting to their pressure (i.e. the Danish cartoons) while Christianity is allowed to be trashed.

They are succeeding in making cultural changes around the world.

First of all...thats the way things are supposed to go as the end nears. Some of the world is succumbing to Islamic ideology...its not surprising. So what, we go to war with Islam? Lets start treating them badly? Lets become just as radical as they are? Are Christians upset because they think we are losing? I am NOT going to start treating people like they are guilty of a crime they haven't commited yet.

As for what you were saying though - and yes that's awesome what you did with the guy you mentioned - but in all these examples you gave none of them were a personal threat to you, were they?

Those examples, I didn't perceive a threat at that time, but anything can happen. Years ago i was kicked in the face by a kid because I got on my knees to pray for him. I once had a drug dealer put a knife to my face during a street ministry event. Once, I was with a street team in South Houston and the Mexican Mafia jumped us for talking to kids. None of those incidents were threatening, until they were...and I still have a heart of compassion for those guys on the streets. I don't profile or assume anything about them either. I have no threat from muslims at this time either which is why I refuse to treat them like they are a threat. I love them, they are my friends and I have alot of compassion for them when they are under fire for the actions of somebody else.

As an instructor, I have to consider "what if" scenarios - i.e. what if one or more gunmen start shooting people in school? What if a bomb goes off? If I'm teaching a lab at the time, how will I protect my students? I'm a small, weak, female with no fight training whatsoever.

But again - I'm not saying there are threats at my school, just that there could be. And I don't treat every Muslim I see as a threat. In fact, I don't treat any that way. It's the possibility that there might be one or more - will any signs be manifested and recognized before people are killed? (Like the signs missed with this army guy.) What if one of my students is a "sleeper"? I'd feel horrible afterward about the whole thing.

Smart move Sis, with the "what if" scenarios...they may save your life someday. But, like you said, it could be anything. You are completely right that you cannot treat every muslim as a threat...and they should not be treated that way. Thats my main beef with everyone talking about monitoring and profiling, or kicking them all out the military, or the country. That type of thinking is the problem. I appreciate that you are trying to find an appropriate response to the violence. I don't view Nidal Hasan's actions as Islamic any more than i view Fred Phelps actions as Baptist. Their actions are an anathema to both sides. The muslims I know are sickened by what Hasan did and what it means to how people will perceive them. I do my best to show them Christian love and compassion...but you can imagine that I too am undermined.

Aren't you tired of reports around the world of Christians being helpless victims all the time - i.e. Sudan, India, etc.? Do you want us to share their fate?

I think of the movie The Mission. One priest responded through peace and everyone with him got slaughtered. Another priest joined with the tribesmen who wanted to fight back. They all died fighting. Neither side saved the Mission or its people.

So while your perspective is pointing out why the fighting doesn't work, I'm not seeing how letting them do as they will and taking it is going to do any good either.

I don't see Christians as "helpless victims." Because of the actions of President Bush Christians have access to the Muslim world like never before. Churches are being built in Syria, in Iraq...even in Iran. Sure, persecution happens and some christians are dying because of it...but THAT is how we win this war! John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, than a man lay down his life for his friends. We don't win by pushing back harder than they push us. Jesus let His enemies put Him to death...and in that action He showed them what real love was.

You have my perspective wrong. Fighting does work. I am all for fighting. However, there are rules to fighting. I am not going to fight people that are innocent and wish me no harm...and that is the vast majority of muslims. You want to fight extremism...I'm on your side. But when people start talking nonsense about violating the rights and freedoms of innocent people just because they have a fear based on something they read on a blog, or a weekend reading of the Quran...I'm not on board with that, and I'll speak out against it.

[Guest LadyC]

mormonism is a greater threat to our way of life than islam?

really?

i don't recall any mormons ever trying to annihilate christians and jews. i've never heard of sleeper cells of mormons. in general, mormons, despite their faulty beliefs in a false religion that they think is of God but isn't, they have better morals and a stronger family unit than even the average "christian" family. that's really sad to say!

did you know that some mormon churches have accepted Christ as their saviour? yep, it's true! just like there are messianic jews, there are christian mormons... there's a church in st. george that has pretty much been shunned by the official mormon church.

[nikki1]

Muslim jihadists in sleeper cells don't go around advertising who or where they are in America. Radical islamists blend in with mainstream Americans and have become westernized for all appearances. Many are well educated in American universities and are disguised as regular every day peaceful human beings to slip under the radar.

And that's the one thing different about this guy - he was practically announcing himself beforehand!

When was that nebula? If you are talking about the clues the authorities didn't pick up on.... It's not unusual for a jihadist to give off hints beforehand. Many of them have been caught because of this. This one slipped through the cracks, because of diversity training IMO. Because this jihadist wasn't apprehended before he massacred so many doesn't make him any less of a jihadist.

Blessings,

Nikki

[ayin jade]

Unless/ until evidence comes out that points to the jihad movement, I'll keep it as that.

Last night, the news did link him to the 9/11 terrorist, well, kind of. He was going to the same mosque, sitting under the same IMAM as three of the terrorist, at the time of 9/11 and was in prayer at the Mosque when it all went down. They are now trying to see if he knew them personally. Maybe he is part of the same radical group, maybe he isn't, but he did sit, and still sits, under the radical IMAM in Texas.

OK - well, see how this how this goes. Help me stay informed on what updates come out, OK?

Classmates participating in a 2007-2008 master's program at a military college complained repeatedly to superiors about what they considered Hasan's anti-American views. Dr. Val Finnell said Hasan gave a presentation at the Uniformed Services University that justified suicide bombing and told classmates that Islamic law trumped the U.S. Constitution.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091109/ap_on_...t_hood_shooting

[Axxman]

Radical Islam 101

Muslim jihadists in sleeper cells don't go around advertising who or where they are in America. Radical islamists blend in with mainstream Americans and have become westernized for all appearances. Many are well educated in American universities and are disguised as regular every day peaceful human beings to slip under the radar.

yadayadayada...

That rule applies to EVERY criminal. In America 85% of all serial killers are white males who kill approx. 200 people each year...and guess what...they are disguised as regular every day peaceful human beings to slip under the radar. You know why we don't actively profile and monitor and violate every white male in America inspite of their high kill rate??? Because it would be wrong and ludicrous to even suggest such a thing.

Criminals who are up to no good do this stuff everyday...but you only wanna pick on muslims.

[ayin jade]

Nope, I don't deny it... there could be a sleeper at your college. Could be a serial killer too...do you profile every single, white, male as a possible murderer? Or do you save the profiling for guys and gals who wear muslim 'garb' and have arabic names? Could be a rapist, a pedophile, a gangbanger, or just a guy who is tired of being lonely and picked on. Do you deny this? How do you manage to profile all these people in your classes? Or...is it just the muslims that need profiled. (And yes, I know you didn't say that...but your comments beg the question.)

Every female profiles men. Its part of the defenses we have.