The Light

Don't mind at all. Just be sure you understand that not many are going to understand my post as it is certainly not something that is commonly taught. Very few people understand there are two raptures. There are so many people that claim there will be no pretribulation rapture because the man of sin has to be revealed before the gathering. What they don't understand is that there are two raptures, as there are two folds. The second rapture will happen at the 6th seal after the man of sin is revealed. So all their arguments that there cannot be a pretribulation rapture go up in smoke. Christians better realize we are told to watch and be ready, and He is coming in an hour that we think not. We best believe that. Additionally, few understand that the day of wrath lasts one year. Isaiah 34 8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. After the Lord comes for His two brides, we all go to heaven for the marriage supper. We stay in heaven for one year during Gods wrath before the armies of heaven follow the Lord to Armageddon. Deuteronomy 24 5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken. After Armageddon there is still one more year before the dead are raised. This is something else you won't hear. End times are based on God feasts which is a shadow of things to come. The Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur, will occur after Armageddon. This is a time of mourning and purification. Then the Feast of Tabernacles and the millennial kingdom.

Let me attempt to address this part. This is tough sledding because of all that is taught in the past which is incorrect. Matthew 24 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. See below. Nothing to really explain with this part. They will see the sign of the sun of man in heaven which is lightning from the east to the west. They will know Jesus is coming and then will see Him in the clouds with His angels. This is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. This occurs at the 6th seal immediately after the great tribulation. The kings of the earth and all other unbelievers that are on the earth will know that the wrath of God is about to begin. That will happen when the 7th seal, which contains the trumpets and vials, is opened. They will mourn because they know what is about to happen.......wrath. Also, at the 6th seal, Jesus has come for the second harvest, the second fold, which will be the 12 tribes across the earth. Jesus brings the first fold with Him as this is the gathering from heaven and earth. Those on the earth that believe are raptured. Jesus does not set His feet on the earth at this time. All go to heaven for the marriage supper and are the great multitude. This is a very, very good observation on your part. End times will be nothing like people think and you picked up on that. One thing to point out is the woman Israel, who flees to a place of protection when the AOD is set up, remains on the earth during the wrath of God. She did not have her blindness removed so she was not raptured. Let's do a hypothetical. Jesus says that this generation will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled. A generation of strength is 80 years. Israel became a nation in 1948. That means Jesus would come by 2028. But this would occur at the 6th seal, because the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 for the gathering happens when the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven. Psalms 90 10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. 11 Who knoweth the power of thine anger? even according to thy fear, so is thy wrath. 12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom. 13 Return, O Lord, how long? and let it repent thee concerning thy servants. So hypothetically if Jesus was to return in 2028, it would be in the fall on the Feast of Trumpets at the last trump. Now as to the length of time of mourning. There is going to be many of those people that mourned when they saw Him that will be dead in the year that follows. There will be others that will not be dead. Hosea 6 2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. After two days. We can take this two ways. A day is as 1000 years. Christ died in 30AD. Two days is 2000 years. The dead could be raised in 2030. Taken another way. A day is a year. Back to our hypothetical. If Jesus came in 2028 for a harvest when all eyes see His coming, there would be two years left from that point. And those two years added to 2028 would also be 2030. So what are those two years. They are the day of wrath and the Day of Atonement. So the answer to your question is there will be one year of mourning and purification for those that remain alive after Armageddon. Then comes the Feast of Tabernacles or Feast of Booths. This would be the time of the millennial kingdom.

I responded to this. Did you miss my response?

The Church is the first fold. We will be taken to heaven before the great tribulation, which occurs in the middle of the week. The second fold is the 12 tribes across the earth. This is the seed of the woman who Satan goes after when He cannot get to the woman, Israel......as they have fled to the place of protection. Jesus comes for the second fold at the 6th seal which is seen here. Matthew 24 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. We get another view of the same event......here. Revelation 14 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. Both folds are in heaven during the wrath of God. They are there for the marriage supper and remain in heaven during the one-year wrath of God. The woman Israel remains on earth during God wrath in a place of protection.

As I said in an earlier post. So many want to skip the FACTS in the details and want to skip right to one-fold. The FACTS are the first fold are known by the Lord and we know Him. He will take this fold with Him. This is a fold of sheep the good Shepard takes to heaven. There are other sheep not of this fold that He must also bring. We can tell who they are because there are 144,000 first fruits, which tell us who these sheep are. They are the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth. After the second fold is brought to heaven at the 6th seal, there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. The great multitude is the proof that two folds have been joined into one-fold. So don't skip the details as they are additional proof that He is coming in an hour that you think not. He is right at the door now. He is coming very, very, very, very soon for those who are watching for Him and are ready. The bride makes herself ready. Do not be fooled into believing there is ONLY one fold.

Yes. And yet there will be two folds.

There is not one fold of believers and one fold of unbelievers. The Shepard knows His sheep and they know him. Both folds are believers. The first fold is the Gentile Church. After the pretribulation rapture of the Church blindness is removed from part of Israel. Then there are 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes. And after that, Jesus comes for the second fold. The second fold is singing the song of Moses.....they are Jews. Two raptures, two harvests, two folds. Both folds are taken to heaven as one fold..........the great multitude.

Your claim lacks knowledge. When the gathering from heaven and earth occurs which takes place at the 6th seal...........the Church is gathered from heaven. They are in heaven before the tribulation Paul clearly taught every man in his own order. First fruits and afterward they that are Christs at His coming. John 10 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. There are two folds of sheep. The first fold is the Church as the Lord knows them and we know the Lord. After this fold, Christ must bring a second fold. Every man in his order. There are 144,000 first fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming. This is the second fold. The gathering from heaven and earth occurs BEFORE the wrath of God. 2 Thes 2 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Then cometh the end..............after the wrath of God..........after the Day of the Lord. The same day Lot left Sodom it rained fire and brimstone. This is the second fold. The day of wrath is one year long. It is the 7th seal wrath of God. Noah is already in the ark before the flood comes, even as the Church will already be in heaven before the wrath of God. This is the first fold. All that are in their graves will raise up at the Last Day. And yet in Daniel 12 we see that MANY of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised. You probably need to understand how all are raised at the last day and many are raised at the end of the tribulation. Daniel 12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. I don't know exactly what you believe, but I'm pretty sure that you don't believe that the 7 seals happen in order. I think you have to shift things out of order to make your end times work.

This is just a regurgitation of what you have been taught and is certainly not the truth. However, as far as Darby goes, he was a man that claimed that Israel was going to be reborn as a nation. There was no nation of Israel for 1700 plus years and this man of faith believed the Word of God..............and he was right. (how could he be wrong?) The nonsense that you are regurgitating was birthed by unbelieving men that didn't believe that God would keep His promise to Israel. YouTube Screenshot of 2 & 1/2 minute Chuck Missler exposition:

Romans 11 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. The Church will already be in heaven before the great tribulation. See Revelation 5 When Jesus comes for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal, it is the Church that is gathered from heaven and those of the 12 tribes across the earth that are gathered from the earth. Mark 13 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Those that come out of the great tribulation that get victory over the beast are singing the song of Moses........they are Jews. Revelation 15 2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. 3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. The 144,000 that have the seal of God have accepted Jesus as Messiah. Revelation 7 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. The 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are first fruits of the coming harvest of the Jews. Revelation 14 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. First fruits are proof of a coming harvest.........seen here. Revelation 14 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Two raptures, two harvests, two folds into one-fold........Israel.........The great multitude.

It would be wise to be watching and ready as instructed as the time is very, very, very short.

Do you think this statement changes anything? How does this disprove the FACT that there are two folds of sheep? Only those that believe Jesus is the Messiah when the Lord comes will be in the first fold. They are those that He knows, and we know Him. There are other sheep not of this fold that He must also bring. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in blindness will be removed from part of Israel and they will see and accept that Jesus is the Messiah. He will come for them at the 6th seal, which is before the 7th seal wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath. Your statement changes none of this.

Yeah, that's the problem isn't it. The Word CLEARLY says that He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him. The Jews are currently blinded. Romans 11 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. This blindness will not be removed until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in at the pretribulation rapture...........The first fold. Romans 11 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. After their blindness is removed, part of Israel will see the Jesus is the Messiah. Then there will be 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes of Israel which means there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes of Israel..... The second fold. Two folds happening at different time. The two folds will be one fold.......the Israel of God. Two raptures, two harvests, two folds........the great multitude.

Jesus is talking about two separate folds that become one fold. God saw the fathers of Israel as the first fruits of the first harvest of the fig tree. The fig tree has two harvests. But Israel went to Baalpeor. Therefore they are not the first harvest. The Gentiles become the first harvest. There will be a rapture of the Church before the great tribulation. Hosea 9 10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved. Jesus came to the Jews. He told the disciples not to go to the Gentiles as His ministry was to the Jews. BUT THEY WOULD NOT. Matthew 23 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. I see exactly what is there. The first fold is those that are Christs at His coming. That is the Gentiles. The Jews are blinded. They do not see Christ is the Messiah and will not until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Romans 11 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. The pretribulation rapture is the first fold. After that, there are 144,000 first fruits of the second fold. The second rapture will occur at the 6th seal BEFORE the wrath of God. Both folds will go into one-fold.......the great multitude. They will be in heaven during the one-year wrath of God. It puzzles me how so many do not understand that Jesus will come in an hour that they think not. That is why we are told to WATCH.

It has nothing to do with wrath. It has to do with those that are His at His coming. When he comes, those that are His at His coming will be the first fold. Then blindness is removed from part of Israel, and they will see that Jesus is the Messiah. Romans 11 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Then the Lord will return for the second fold. Two raptures, two harvests, two folds into one fold......the great multitude. Romans 11 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Obviously, there are two folds as there are other sheep not of the 1st fold. Two folds into one-fold. Two raptures, two harvests, two folds into one-fold......the great multitude. John 10 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The relevance is there are two folds that the Lord brings with Him. Only those that He knows who hear His voice will be in the first fold. The Gentiles are the first fold. Then blindness is removed from part of Israel, and they are regrafted into the olive tree. Christ returns for the second fold. Two raptures, two harvests, two folds into one-fold.........the great multitude.

Both folds are Israel. But both folds do not hear His voice at the same time.

There are two folds..........or groups of sheep. The first fold will be the Gentiles as we hear His voice and He knows us. The second fold will be the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman. And that is what is going to happen in the world. There will be two harvests and the first harvest will be the Gentiles before the great tribulation. The second harvest will be the 12 tribes across the earth, BEFORE the wrath of God. These two folds are joined together into one fold...........the great multitude. The point being that many want to skip the details and jump straight to the one fold. There are two raptures, two harvests.....two folds.

I am exactly in context. You said the folds are Jew and Gentile. This is correct. Then you said that the Jew was the first fold. And you were incorrect. Christ came for the Jew first......and they would not. Matthew 23 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. The fig tree has two harvests. The fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest. But they served Baalpeor. The Gentiles become the first harvest or first fold. Hosea 9 10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved. After the pre tribulation rapture, there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest. Gentiles the first fold before the great tribulation and Jews the second fold before the wrath of God.

The details Anne2 is that the Jews at that time didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah. They did not hear His voice. They will not be the first fold of sheep. John 10 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. It is the Gentiles that know His voice and follow Him. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in..........the pretribulation rapture.......God will remove the blindness from part of Israel...........the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. This is why there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest or second fold. Many of the 12 tribes across the earth will be regrafted into the second fold. There two folds...........two raptures ...........two harvests......BEFORE the wrath of God. And one of the folds is the Gentile harvest at the pretribulation rapture.

It is Gentiles first and then the Jews. It has everything to do with what is to happen. So many of you want to skip the details of what is to happen and jump right to end when two folds become one fold. I think you want to skip the details of what God tells us is to happen and jump right to the end. Gentiles first and then the Jews...........as it is written.

Who is the first fold and who is the second fold?

So what are the two folds specifically?