Diaste

Finally. No. Jews are a religion. The seed of Abraham are those in Christ, that is Israel, the people of God. There are literally no 'christians' as a distinct group who are truly in Christ and are not considered to be of the seed of Abraham or true Israel. Christians who think so are deluded by the power of religion and the word of the wolves in sheep's clothing. You keep equating religion with faith. They are as compatible as oil and water or iron and clay.

Sure. This passage doesn't say anything about gathering anyone, in fact it depicts a force of one. I have trodden the winepress alone, and no one from the nations was with Me. I trampled them in My anger and trod them down in My fury; their blood spattered My garments, and all My clothes were stained. 4For the day of vengeance was in My heart, and the year of My redemption had come. 5I looked, but there was no one to help; I was appalled that no one assisted. So My arm brought Me salvation, and My own wrath upheld Me. 6I trampled the nations in My anger; in My wrath I made them drunk and poured out their blood on the ground.” This isn't a recorded 'coming', 'appearance', 'return', or any other arrival. This is a picture of one aspect of what happens after the one and only arrival. Again, just another aspect of what the reign of Jesus entail at the onset of that reign when He makes His return. In order for there to be multiple 'arrivals' that would suggest an arrival, then leaving, then another arrival and another leaving after that, and so on. We don't see that in scripture. One arrival, many aspects of that singular event. I think you are meaning one thing but perhaps using a term that doesn't fit. You know that's allegorical, yes? The sickle is the great anger which compels the action, the grapes are the enemy, the wine press represents where the enemy is crushed and the treading is the great war in the valley where the enemy is defeated. This is using poetic language to depict the battle and it's result in the valley of Jehoshaphat, at Armageddon. Yes, that's what I have been saying. Just what you said is the truth: An single event with many aspects. One event which is the initial cause of the sky splitting, the fear of the people of earth, the gathering up of the elect, then the prosecution of wrath, etc.

I don't think one word of your response had anything to do with the point I made, a point which was relevant to your earlier response. But what do I know?

Paul said, "If you you are in Christ you are the seed of Abraham." Not, "If you are in Christ, you are a Jew." Jew is religion. Israel is faith. I imagine God knows the difference.

I do not see the elect as warriors marshalled to battle in the Valley of Jehoshaphat.

Sure. But that still doesn't show a 2nd and 3rd appearance of Jesus. I do not. Only bowls are wrath as they are the ones called wrath. The Trumps are not wrath and occur before the midpoint, in some cases, per Joel: In Joel 1 we are told by prophecy: 9Grain and drink offerings have been cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests are in mourning, those who minister before the LORD. This is the midpoint when the A of D has occurred. Then Joel 1 tells us this: 10The field is ruined; the land mourns. For the grain is destroyed, the new wine is dried up, and the oil fails. Be dismayed, O farmers, wail, O vinedressers, over the wheat and barley, because the harvest of the field has perished. So at the time of the A of D, the grain is destroyed and the harvest is no more. This is what the 1st Trump does: "7Then the first angel sounded his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass." Grain is grass. No harvest, the grain destroyed. At the time of the midpoint, before tribulation and well before God's wrath. Joel 1 also says: The grapevine is dried up, and the fig tree is withered; the pomegranate, palm, and apple— all the trees of the orchard—are withered. Why are they withered and not burned? Lack of fresh water, perhaps? The 3rd Trump: "Then the third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star burning like a torch fell from heaven and landed on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter like wormwood oil,a and many people died from the bitter waters." That's probably not too good for vines and orchards. It looks to me like Trumps are sounding in the first half of the week before the A of D, or at the time of the A of D and of course, well before God's wrath falls. I would say the Trumps are increasing the pressure on people by creating a lack of daily needs, hoping to get their attention that they turn turn to God and repent and beg forgiveness, but they are not wrath. I understand. I don't care for the terminology. It's all God's doing within the overall plan. Satan can do nothing unless permitted, he's a tool God uses. Small distinction perhaps, but I think an important one.

I should have said. "The seals are conditions that will exist or events that will occur. The seals are an overview of the end of the age with trumps all occurring within the seals." and not, "The seals are conditions that will exist or events that will occur. The seals are an overview of the end of the age with trumps and seals all occurring within the seals." My bad, I should probably have a 2nd cup before I write stuff. I see the 6th seal and 7th trump occurring in the same general time/space moment. The sixth seal reveals the signs heralding the return of Jesus and the onset of wrath, the 7th trump is when Jesus returns, the gathering occurs then, Jesus metes out the wrath of God. How close together they are I cannot say, but I don't equate them. I do believe I have said I see it as a successive/concurrence, not one for one, not equal, but not all seals first, then all the trumps either. About your 2nd paragraph... Isn't all that happening as revealed by the seals as well? War, death, famine, plague mass murder and, martyrs sacrificed in the name of Jesus and for their testimony. It don't sound to me like anything is normal, even within the seals. I guess I have never understood this. "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left." as the people being oblivious to 'what's going on' as in, they are unaware of the many crises on the earth at the time. What they are generally oblivious to is what the crises point to, the near return of Jesus and the coming wrath. So it's pretty clear to me the seals reveal the entire last week right up to the impending wrath of God at the 6th seal. I would say the trumps are the herald of the calamities revealed by seals 2-4, before the return of Jesus and the wrath of God, which wrath is the bowls. The pressure of the trumps is meant to drive people toward the Father before the finality of God's savage wrath. I think if you read to Isaiah 63:5-6 you'll see this is the wrath of God on the nations. In fact, 1-6 is a description of the coming wrath, just like in Rev 14:17-20. But, if Jesus already destroyed the nations as in Isaiah 63 and prior to Rev 19, who is he fighting against in Rev 19 when it's proclaimed in Rev 19:19; "Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army."? That doesn't mean the gathering didn't happen at, or around, or just prior to, Rev 19. If there was language that prohibited the gathering at this time that would be one thing, but there isn't. Mere omission in the narrative of a timeline does not mean any particular event didn't happen near to other events in that timeline. It's just that the focus of the narrative is on a singular event, or several events, a targeted focus at this point in the timeline narrative; it's not an impossibility for other events to occur simultaneously, in conjunction, or in a near succession. In other words, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." See the previous. I see this as added details. It's like an investigation. An investigator will interview several people and attempt to gather relevant evidence from many sources to construct a complete picture. This is what Spirit does in scripture. Many times a single revealed event isn't described in every detail in single book by a single author in one or two chapters; one has to scour several books and traverse 1000s of years to find all the details. Your not seeing contradictory statements, your seeing added details of the event of Jesus coming/return. The sun and the moon and the stars go out, the nations fear the coming wrath, the 7th trump sounds, the elect are gathered by the angels up into the clouds of the air, Jesus and His armies split the sky and charge into battle against the beast. That's not too hard to do for one with all power in the universe. No coming then return needed, not twice, just a rapid succession of events. Even if the term 'parousia' isn't used, it's clear Jesus is coming from one place to go to another. The armies are following Him. He's going somewhere and He was somewhere else before he was going elsewhere. So in Rev 19 He's going and coming; going out from heaven, coming to earth to the great battle, as depicted. Not knowing the day or hour is vastly different than the ability to discern the general time. Of course they know He's coming, we know He's coming, we just don't know exactly when. We are told to watch. "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come" "Be on your guard and stay alert!" "So keep watch at all times," We are also what to watch for. If we could not know the general time, why would we be told to watch and stay sober and alert? Satan and the beast know the same thing, the general time, not the exact moment. Satan, the beast and the FP are preparing for the inevitability, the war they know is coming, the war they want; they just don't know when their adversary will appear.

"wars and rumors of wars" "Then another horse went forth. It was bright red, and its rider was granted permission to take away peace from the earth and to make men slay one another. And he was given a great sword." Sounds like war to me. "famines" "And I heard what sounded like a voice from among the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius,a and three quarts of barley for a denarius" That's a loaf of bread for a days wage. This is caused by the 1st trump. "preaching of the gospel to the whole world" "Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth" The eternal Gospel proclaimed to the whole world. The above is in the midst of the end of the age just prior to the appearance of the Lord. The seals are conditions that will exist or events that will occur. The seals are an overview of the end of the age with trumps all occurring within the seals. Jesus clearly spoke of this since the disciples asked, "“Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”"

If we rely on AI to generate our daily devotionals, sermons and Christian contents as well as our plans for tomorrow, wouldn’t we be guilty of supplanting God with a virtual idol? From the article. Of course. Not sure why this is future tense though. Christianity has already supplanted God. I don't think the elect have anything to fret about, AI, the beast or the FP.

In doing a little reading about the spiritual meaning of a frog in contemporary 'spiritual' culture, the frog is a symbol of transformation, purity and prosperity, among other ideas. It's possible the kings of the earth that are deceived are steeped in the esoteric new age occultism that sees frogs this way; spiritual signs of wealth, prosperity, transformation, purity, etc. It's said in Rev 16 these demons are 'like' frogs. The idea being a resemblance to a frog whether that's a marsh leaper or an actual frog. I would think they aren't 'frogs' but bear enough of a likeness that to the kings about to be deceived, it's a frog. That semblance would have a message for the soon to be deceived kings that positive change is on the way and with it, wealth, health and prosperity, before the frog said a word, if they speak. I would think in order to complete the deception the frogs would speak, but who knows? The deception is the frog brings the message of transformation[of the good kind], wealth and prosperity, when in fact the joining together to battle at Armageddon is their doom. Maybe it isn't so much the beast has had his power diminished, as it is the need for messengers to preach their gospel, enticing the kings through the weakness of the flesh and the promise of the multitude of merchandise. But idk. I'm just speculating. :)

An example would be the Halls of Congress in the USA. Lots of Jews, many others have dual citizenship with Israel. And right now the fight is on as many on the Right are more aware than ever of the evils of deep corruption in DC. Congress is encroaching daily on the freedom of US citizens. I suspect this is out of desperation as politicians are losing the grip on the narrative. Probably there will be a very desperate act on the horizon as the election is just 7 months away, an election they are convinced they would lose if it was fair and free. And remember, Jews don't like the rest of the world. World domination is part of their manifesto. Jews are the religious zealots. The seed of Abraham, Israel, are the people of God.

Jewish people, or Israel?

Says 'unavailable'.

Didn't say 'formless', said 'featureless', a blank canvas. Yes. And that condition was clearly featureless and empty as the creation account shows, else there would be no need to create. On the third day the oceans were separated and land appeared. Topographical features were thus created were it must be assumed they didn't previously exist. From the narrative of the 2nd and 3rd day, the earth was a water world, the 3rd day records the initial separation of the water and land under the expanse. So unless the earth existed and then reverted to 'water above and below with no separation of sky and water and water and land, the Genesis creation narrative is initial creation of the earth with no previous creation. True. That's why I don't use formless. But from Day 2, the earth is waterworld with no forms and featureless. Only if one conjugates the verb out of context. It's not 'became' it's 'be', as in existed. Who witnessed a previous creation? And context gives us the correct form. The context in Gen is not the same as in Jeremiah and Isaiah. Exactly. A wholly diverse context rendering impossible the understanding of Jeremiah and Isaiah to be applied to Gen 1:1-2. You keep saying this, but the descriptions are not close to the same. It's like saying 'I run to the store.' when a person already went to the store and returned. I don't disagree. It can. But did it? There are no clues to this based on evidence, other than a misuse of the verb. If it was clear we would likely not be debating. I do not. I have said 'featureless' from the onset. it's clear the earth had a form of some type as it was covered with water and showed no dry land till day 3. Ergo, featureless, not formless. In that context, I agree. I can't cherrypick. I need the context and logical construction. The creation narrative as a whole proves the earth was covered with water after the waters above were separated from the waters below. All water, no land till day 3. It can with the correct context, and the secondary or tertiary definition applied as indicated by the context.

So is that a 'no'?