JDavis

Why? In regards to the description in Rev. 1, what do you believe is figurative and what is literal? Why? Because we tend to go by our preconceived beliefs on what is literal and what is not. We are used to clothing so we will see that as literal and we are no used to swords coming out of mouths so we wont see that as literal. 12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. I see no good reason to take any of it literally.

If the sword isn't real, the clothes can't be real either..................right? John 19 23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His garments and made four parts, to each soldier a part, and also the tunic. Now the tunic was without seam, woven from the top in one piece. 24 They said therefore among themselves, “Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be,” that the Scripture might be fulfilled which says: “They divided My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.” Therefore the soldiers did these things. Why was Jesus wearing clothes? Jesus was in human form on this earth during this, there is nothing in this passage that is figurative, so there is nothing to lead one to believe the cloths are anything but literal. The passages in Rev are filled with figurative speech, and yet people want to grab one or two things out of all those figures of speech and say "those are literal" and the rest are not. I think this is a bad way of doing things.

I don't know what comment you are speaking of, but I can think of none that I made that did not have a goal or were not part of the discussion started by someone else.

So, you die physically then you face your judgment, which would be when the wages of sin would be paid. This verse seems to fit my understanding of it being spiritual death.

What do you think would have been the reaction of the local Christian community had a Muslim tried this?

You mean, you like to stir the pot and see where it goes? You had no point to make with regards to the subject? So...you bring up a passage in Revalation, I comment in it and then reply to direct questions and that is stirring the pot. How creative Actually Jesus is wearing clothes, JD. "Clothed in Righteousness" is a metaphorical statement regarding Jesus as completely righteous. Righteousness is not a garment in the literal sense. Revelation 1 and 19 describe the clothes Jesus is wearing. Do you believe there is a literal sword coming out of the mouth of Jesus as described in chapter 1?

You mean, you like to stir the pot and see where it goes? You had no point to make with regards to the subject? So...you bring up a passage in Revalation, I comment in it and then reply to direct questions and that is stirring the pot. How creative

That interpretation certainly would not bring cohesion with the rest of scripture in regards to sin and death. I would not agree. The wages of sin being spiritual death makes much more sense than the wages being physical death. What is physical death compared to separation from God?

If that is true, why is it mentioned in Revelation people will be given robes to wear? Revaluation is a book filled with figurative speech. it tells us a sword will come out of Jesus' mouth...do you think it will be a real sword? I believe Jesus is clothed in righteousness. I believe that Heaven is a spiritual realm, not a physical one. Thus Jesus would not be wearing clothing as we think of it. But that does not answer the question. Is He naked, by any understanding of the word or imagery? nakedness is a physical attribute, thus it does not apply OK, so what is your point with this in regards to the topic of this thread? I am not the one that brought this point in to the discussion. I am just responding to what people post

Can you please provide evidence that "most" theologians and scholars believe this. Thanks

No, I don't see Adam and Eve walking around. I think you can rest assured they physically died. I also don't think death = spirit separation. I think death = eternal judgement. death in the Bible does not equal eternal punishment. Death in the Bible means a separation of two things... physical death is the separation of the soul from the physical body spiritual death is man separated from God being dead to our sin is man separated from their sin. As for Adam and Eve...Gen 2:15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Adam did not die physically the day he ate of the fruit, but he did die spiritually. Thus just by going by the words of Gen, the death that Adam brought was the spiritual separation from God.

They make a compelling case. I am also happy and impressed to see a Christian site quote Al Jazerra

I believe Jesus is clothed in righteousness. I believe that Heaven is a spiritual realm, not a physical one. Thus Jesus would not be wearing clothing as we think of it. But that does not answer the question. Is He naked, by any understanding of the word or imagery? nakedness is a physical attribute, thus it does not apply

I believe Jesus is clothed in righteousness. I believe that Heaven is a spiritual realm, not a physical one. Thus Jesus would not be wearing clothing as we think of it.

For Steven... Rev 7: (A couple of verses added to your passage) 13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. So, did they literally wash their clothing in the blood of Jesus or is this figurative? Also, the first verse in the chapter....After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four wind? So, are they literally standing at the four corner of the earth, are there literally four corner of the earth, or is this figurative? Rev 1: 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. So, is there a literal sword coming out of the mouth of Jesus, or is this figurative? II Cor 5: For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. This passage is not speaking of actual clothing, it is speaking of our new bodies. To think this passage is speaking of actual clothing is to miss the whole point of the passage. Zech 3:Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan[a] standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?” 3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, “Take off his filthy clothes.” Then he said to Joshua, “See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put fine garments on you.” 5 Then I said, “Put a clean turban on his head.” So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him, while the angel of the Lord stood by. The "filthy clothes" here does not refer to actual clothing, look at the next part of the verse, what was taken away was his sin, not his clothes. The dirty clothes are a metaphor for his sin.

wow, and now you think you are a Prophet. that is some pride you have... Perhaps you should take this verse under consideration... Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. The higher the view of self, the further the fall.

It is good you can realize your weakness in this area. That means there is hope for you yet Here again you take out of context the meaning this was posted.... there are varying views of Scripture because of fleshly inserts to God's Word... It is all to be arrived at by Spirit's Teachings and we must walk in His Spirit to be able to discern the truth... not directed to you personally but an answer to why we all get wrong at times! This is our struggle here in forum to weigh the words of others to see if we are on track or need to back up and prayerfully reassess and study... Love, Steven I am not going to lie to you, when someone claims to speak for the Lord I tend to dismiss what they have to say. It has been my experience that those with the greatest insight from the Lord do not feel the need to tell people they do, it is obvious from their words

Steven, Repeating the same passages does not change their meaning. I will address each passage when I get home, too much typing for a phone

Fruitful... Are you married?

We don't know that, but assume this to be true. Tribal law is a whole lot different than our law. It showed no mercy to the offender, causing one to be far less willing to take the chance. I have different triggers than you do, and you have different triggers than the next person in line. It makes absolutely not difference what the triggers are just that they are there. It was not the clothing that changed them, it was the whole influence of the civilized world. What do you think they thought of when they saw the first airplane? So, the problem is not really nudity, it is how we perceive it? Look, i am not advocating we all go around naked, just that the problem is in the person, not what the person is or is not wearing. And knowing this we should all, male and female, take care with our attire so as to not entice others to sin

Yes, it "seems" as if we do, but we don't. Why do so many people on this forum speak in riddles? Do you suppose it makes you seem

Show me where God's Word is spoken of here? Or a correction to what is thought God's Word says.... I am not interested in what you think of me or what you think of others but only of God's Word being lifted up as the Truth that It holds alone and not as something man has generated in his own undisciplined thoughts... You have made a statement we are going to be naked before God! I have shown you God's Word does not support your view... let's get back to that- in fact of thus Sayeth the Lord Let's get back to the Word and not other trivial things of no importance... Love, Steven The passages you provide speak in figurative terms, not literal. Your understanding of these passages is flawed. just as Jesus is not literally a lamb, the mention of robes and the like is not literal.

It is very easy to claim what your saying comes.directly from God...lots of people make that claim. It is also an easy way to avoid responsibility for your own words. I hate to break this to you, but you do not speak for God and I am offended by your claim to do so. you are just a human like the rest of us

Revaluation is a book filled with figurative speech. it tells us a sword will come out of Jesus' mouth...do you think it will be a real sword? The Lamb is not literal. We understand that the Lamb is Jesus Christ who was sacrificed for our sins, the palm branches represent worship, the white robes represent being clothed in righteousness. I think the number of people who believe that Jesus Christ reincarnates as a literal sheep are very few indeed! Why would we think the white robes are literal? Do the two of you believe that Jesus is sitting on the Throne in the buff? I believe Jesus sitting on the Throne is a figure of speech not a literal thing....seems He would have gotten tied of sitting after 2000 years. You didn't answer my question...do you think an actual sword will come out of Jesus' mouth?

Nudity by itself isn't what made nudity shameful to Adam and Eve. It was the knowledge they absorbed from eating that fruit. "They have become like Us". They gained the knowledge of good and evil. Nudity by itself isn't evil. It's all the things that accompany nudity. When Adam and Eve realized they were naked, the shame they felt wasn't over their nakedness, it was over the sins and temptations that surrounds nudity. Well then it seems we agree with each other.