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Michael, I absolutely agree. If it is a reasonable request to also delete my post that you replied to. I am a bit embarrassed that I allowed someone to irk me to the point that I'd made such a comment. I believe the topic was hijacked, even though I stand by the scripture presented without interpretation. I allowed the topic to be soiled by my own reactions, and am appropriately repentant as a result. Thank you for keeping me in check, brother.

God can't impute sin to those in Christ.

We all have that prospect to face as a possibility. I hope to avoid it as long as possible. While it is true that age does impair our faculties and diminish our capabilities, we need to take care not to make personal attacks on members with unpleasant comments that lower the tone of discussions on Worthy Forums. I don't think this thread should continue if that's all it generates.

I speak Jesus! 🥰

Hi Patticats, Oh, that would have been great to hear such music back in the `80`s, A lot of great music from that era.

@Marilyn C I remember this song!! I have loved it the very first time I heard it. It was in the early 1980's. Thanks for posting this!!

Okay . . . so then you can hang around for the tribulation . . . build a bunker in your basement . . . store up food for 3 or 7 years . . . tell everybody that we are doomed to experience the wrath of God . . . or whatever you think will happen. And Yes, I read the majority of the debate in these posts . . . I just cannot fathom how God (who has a long standing history of delivering His people) will leave His people to experience His wrath. BUT . . . if that does happen . . . no Christian who has had any exposure to scripture would knowingly take the mark of the beast unless their walk with Jesus is shallow or non existent. So . . . the signs of His coming are all around us and His return is eminent. I suspect that one day soon this debate will be forever answered by the end times plan of God actually happening after which, nobody will give it an second thought. Be ready . . . Stay ready . . .

I agree with this. Obviously there's some stuff that's pretty far out, but on the whole I find that there is, at bare minimum, a case to be made for a lot of the hot topics within Christianity that have been argued about for hundreds if not thousands of years. Most of the time these beliefs have zero to do with salvation, the divinity of Jesus, how we should live day to day, and so on. IMO that puts them squarely under the heading of what Paul called disputable/debatable matters in Romans 14. Other parts of the Bible speaks of gently correcting others and advise us to be humble and not divisive. It's one thing to have an opposing view. It's another to call a non-essential belief a lie. When we debate from a position that invites division and hostility it's difficult to see anything humble or any good intentions behind the argument even if they're there.

I've noticed that your arguments did not answer my statements. I've also notice that you never us the article. It is "THE Great Tribulation". The KJV omits it, but the NKJV amends this. Other than that, you brought no scripture. I will sow what scripture says with a short comment on each one. But first I will answer what you avoided. 1st Thessalonians 5:9, in context with the rapture at the end of Chapter 4, says that we are not appointed to wrath. It also says that this appointment is because of Christ. Your avoiding this question is significant because that is the gospel - Jesus saving men from God's wrath. The argument that there are different words for wrath is not decisive for in the grammar they are different things. If I desecrate the Temple in Jerusalem this will provoke God to WRATH. In His wrath, He will pour out RETRIBUTION. This retribution causes men to have TRIBULATION. To argue that the TRIBULATION is not His WRATH because thy are different words is no argument. In Mathew 24, which you proposed, its sequence is; 1. The Beast, a gentile Prince, sets himself up in the place reserved for God 2. God is very angry, or "WRATHFUL" and the result is TRIBULATION such as never was before 3. The TRIBULATION is so intense that if God had not shortened it to 1260 days, 42, months and/or a time, times and half a time, the Remnant of Jews who are set aside to fulfill Deuteronomy 30:1-5, would not survive. 4. So God stops His RETRIBUTION and scripture reports in both Matthew 24:29 and Daniel 12:1-2 that SOME Israelites survive. 5. But the Covenant with Abraham is also with his SEED. So Matthew 24:31 is a one-verse description of Ezekiel Chapter 37. The greater part of Israel lie in the dust seeing as the curses of Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 caused an inordinately large death rate among those in the Diaspora. It is obvious from the context of all things Jewish in Matthew 24:1-31, that our Lord is answering the questions in verse 3 as they pertain to the Apostles and their ministry to the "Circumcision" (see Galatians 2). Then suddenly our Lord changes to a PARABLE. We know from Matthew 13 that our Lord Jesus spoke in parables when He didn't want Israel or the Gentiles to understand. Matthew 24:32 onward is to the CHURCH. The CONTENT and CONTEXT in Matthew 24:32 to 25:30 is dramatic. Except for the Fig Tree, no events are predicted. Servants and Virgins are addressed and the them is their MORALITY. Five Parables follow; 1. The Fig Tree 2. The Broken House because some are TAKEN (Paralambano - Gk.) 3. The Faithful/Unfaithful Servant ripped from ruling 4. The Ten Virgins 5. The Talents The overriding theme is JUDGMENT - not about what we believed, but what we DID (Works). The admonishment is not wars and famine, but being selected for the Kingdom. The Lord, in this section, does not come as lightning. He comes as a THIEF. A THIEF comes in the dark. He comes at the Circadian Low. He comes and goes stealthily. He comes for what is VALUABLE. The invaded wake and do not even notice that valuables are missing. It only dawns on them later - the VALUABLE, the OVERCOMERS, the RIPE Christians, the MATURE, are missing. HOW??? The have been stolen IN RAPTURE. The end of the section is Matthew 25:30. In verse 31 our Lord is seated on HIS Throne. He is to judge "ALL NATIONS". The Church does not appear before the THRONE. It is judged at the BEMA (Rom.14:10, 2 Cor.5:10). The Bema replaces the throne when the dignitary is TRAVELING. The King is crowned and enthroned on HIS THRONE in heaven in Revelation 4. Then He descends and stops in the clouds to sit on the BEMA. The Church is raptured to this assize in the clouds. "After THE Tribulation of those days" ... He continues His journey to Mount of Olives. he has been in the clouds, but now He bursts forth with GLORY like lightning to deal with Israel. The sequence summarized is; - Christ sits in His Father's Throne "above all heavens" (Eph.4:8-10) for the Church age - Christ is crowned and enthroned FOR THE EARTH (Rev.4). It is HIS throne - Christ travels through the clouds and meets with the Raptured Church (1. Thess.4) - Christ continues His travel to Mount of Olives. He bursts through the clouds like lightning in glory

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7x7r8m3xlo